jonottawa Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 You pick up in 3rd seat. [hv=d=s&v=n&s=skqjt53h932d7ct54]133|100|Scoring: IMPP - 2♥ - P - P X - P - 2 ♠ - P P - 3 ♦ - 3 ♠ - 4 ♦ X - P - ?[/hv] Pard broke tempo before he doubled 4 Diamonds. Edit: reformatted auction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicklont Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Pass, p already passed 2♠, didn't he? Btw: it is not easy to read that auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Hi, reformatting the auction P - 2H - P.. - P X - P.. - 2S - P P - 3D - 3S - 4DX - P.. - ? Pass and 4S are both ok, for thatmatter, it is clear, why partner passed, he is weak, ... remember he passed as dealer.But pass is certainly the alternative with the lower expectation to win the board. For what's it worth, I doubt that wecan go plus in 4S, and we will catch a X. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Why did I bid and not 3S? Anyways, if it was a partner I trusted I would pass, but it really seems as if partner can't have his bid here so I would pull with most people. If partner tank Xed I would always pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Maybe this is trivial, but I think normal tempo for the 4♦ bid is a few secs of tanking. A very fast dbl might bare you from sitting, a very slow double might bare you from pulling, but some 5-8 secs I would consider normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blofeld Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Right, and we're not told whether the break in tempo was a super-fast bid or a slower than normal one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonottawa Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 The break in tempo/tank was about 12 seconds. I had very little confidence in partner. "Pard already passed 2 ♠ didn't he?" I'm not considering pulling this to make. I'm considering pulling this because I have purity, a 9+ card fit, and less than half a trick on defense opposite a passed hand when the opps are known to have at least 23 high and a 2 suit fit. "Why'd you bid 2 ♠ and not 3 ♠?" I have an affinity for plus scores. How often does the 2 ♥ bidder reopen? With the boss suit, going slow usually works. A direct 3 ♠ would have saved me an IMP, though, it's true. "I bet you get doubled." I bet I didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 "I bet you get doubled." I bet I didn't. He thought that you play reasonable opps. not just beginners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Pard is a passed hand. Pulling out is obvious. As it was obvious to pass if he weren't a passed hand :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Pard is a passed hand. So what? Did I not bid 2♠ and then 3♠? Did I not hear the rest of the auction? Why am I pulling 4♦x? Besides, if I pull the double to 4♠ after a 12 second tank by partner, there is a ZERO percent chance that I will get a good result on this board. If the pull is right, the opponents will object and I will lose in committee. If the pull is wrong, then no one will complain. I may not be barred by the tank, but, for all intents and purposes, I am barred from getting a good result by pulling after the tank. Since it is possible that partner has the opps beat EVEN AS A PASSED HAND I cannot pull the slow double. What would happen if partner made a lightning double of 4♦? How would the argument go if I didn't pull that double? Would the opps argue that my hand MUST pull it because he is a passed hand and no passed hand can beat 4♦x on my cards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 I think I'm barred by the tank. Pard sounds like a 3=2=4=4 11 count with so-so diamonds (because of the hitch). Side note: Jon - you seem like a very cynical person. Nothing in anyone's comments should have caused to react like you did. Lets keep it constructive. We're really a nice bunch around here, although some of us can get passionate about things in the Water Cooler. If you want to start flame wars, I would suggest rec.games.bridge. There's a whole lot of pissed-off posters there that would welcome your attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Pard is a passed hand. So what? Did I not bid 2♠ and then 3♠? Did I not hear the rest of the auction? Why am I pulling 4♦? Maybe because there's a.. what.. 1% chance that a passed hand can scrap up 4 tricks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 I think I would've bid 4♠ a long time ago. Many mediocre hands for partner offer good play for game, and in any case we have a big spade fit so if partner's hand is minimum opponents are probably missing a plus score somewhere. Having bid 2♠ and then 3♠, I've obviously made the (quite possibly incorrect) decision that we won't be making 4♠. Since partner's actions in the subsequent bidding haven't improved our chances at making 4♠, it seems like I should pass. Especially with the break in tempo, which can only make bidding more appealing. I think this falls into the general category of hands where we have to keep an early decision in mind when making a later decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Pard is a passed hand. So what? Did I not bid 2♠ and then 3♠? Did I not hear the rest of the auction? Why am I pulling 4♦? Maybe because there's a.. what.. 1% chance that a passed hand can scrap up 4 tricks? Sure, it is unlikely, but partner says that is what he has. On this auction, the double of 4♦ is not a suggestion, nor is it cooperative. You already said that you were not interested in game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonottawa Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Side note: Jon - you seem like a very cynical person. Nothing in anyone's comments should have caused to react like you did. Lets keep it constructive. We're really a nice bunch around here, although some of us can get passionate about things in the Water Cooler. If you want to start flame wars, I would suggest rec.games.bridge. There's a whole lot of pissed-off posters there that would welcome your attitude. :huh: Phil, take your own advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 I have nothing else to add to my bidding, even without the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Side note: Jon - you seem like a very cynical person. Nothing in anyone's comments should have caused to react like you did. Lets keep it constructive. We're really a nice bunch around here, although some of us can get passionate about things in the Water Cooler. If you want to start flame wars, I would suggest rec.games.bridge. There's a whole lot of pissed-off posters there that would welcome your attitude.:huh: Phil, take your own advice. Predictable response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 I voted "Sit because ....". I have no defense and my voluntary 3♠ bid might have given p the impression that I have some general values. It's hard to deny that pass is a LA, though. Not sure why Phil thinks Jon is cynical. I might have missed something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted October 31, 2007 Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 Why can't the opponents just have done something foolish like be in a bad 4-4 fit and partner has KQJ9 and an ace? Or maybe responder did something even more foolish and assumed the 2 bidder would be 6-5, and poor partner is sitting there with QJT9x of diamonds and an ace and a king and xxx of spades, or something. They could be down 3 in that case. The only reason pass would normally be right in this situation is that the a priori odds of partner having a double here are so low that the odds he is doing something foolish or can't be trusted are much higher. But just because the odds partner could have a double here are low doesn't mean those hands don't exist. Partner shouldn't be playing us for any defense, so to pull is to say we don't trust him. Pulling after a tank is criminal as long as we are experienced enough to understand the issues. TY for reformatting the auction. This way is a lot less headache-inducing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonottawa Posted October 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 Y'all have convinced me. I thought it would be a much closer vote. At the time I thought it was borderline 'automatic' to pull here, but as others have said, if you trust partner, you sit. Period. (And if you don't trust partner, find another one.) Luckily I got what I deserved. We'd have beaten 4 Diamonds a trick, maybe 2 if he tried to make it. 4 Spades was down 2. The whole story is on my blog. If you want to look at the hand it's here: http://online.bridgebase.com/myhands/hands...rname=jonottawa Pard held: ♠962 ♥A76 ♦AJT6 ♣K73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 31, 2007 Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 Tx Jon, it's cool that you post a hand where you made the wrong decision :rolleyes: Btw, I would have opened p's hand and I consider myself a conservative opener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 31, 2007 Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 Jonottawa, what I'm going to say isn't popular in this forum but I'll say it anyway. Players have the responsibility to try and do what they think it's best for their side. That includes overruling partner's decisions, if there's evidence he's making a mistake. If pard is about to blunder and I know that, I should do something about it, instead of letting him go ahead with his mistake. Sure, letting him do it might win you the post-mortem, but that's not where battles are won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 31, 2007 Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 Players have the responsibility to try and do what they think it's best for their side. That includes overruling partner's decisions, if there's evidence he's making a mistake. Fair enough. FWIW I have explicitly agreed with one p that we never field each other's misbids and bad judgements (or psyches for that matter). But that is something to discuss with p. I can imagine the agreement that we never field each other's mistakes during mostly-for-the-practice games but that we do during serious competition. In particular, I think said partner "should" field my misdefenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted October 31, 2007 Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 Good hand and objective analysis. There's hope for you yet Jon. (JK :) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted October 31, 2007 Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 I'd sit for this one.Partner can't count on more than one trick at most from me.Being a passed hand he shouldn't double this without very nice trumps and something more. Btw, we can't expect to do too well in 4♠ on this sequence anyway, probably 2-3 down, so even if 4♦x might make that won't hurt us too badly here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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