Walddk Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 The world has seen it three times before (1965, 1990 and 1992), but now we must have it verified once and for all on vugraph. Which system is better, natural as played in the Portland Club in London with no gadgets, or scientific with all sorts of conventions? BBO is happy to present Naturalists vs Scientists Thursday and Friday in the vugraph theatre. The match will be played in the fashionable area of Belgravia in London, England. We will be broadcasting from both tables. The Naturalists are captained by shipowner Dmitri Marchessini and Zia Mahmood captains the Scientists. Line-ups are: Naturalists: Dmitri Marchessini, Giles Hargreaves, Patrick Lawrence, Lord Wolfson.Scientists: Zia Mahmood, Andrew Robson, Gunnar Hallberg, Boye Brogeland, David Gold. The Portland standard system is weak NT, 4 card majors, 2♣ strong, Blackwood and *NO* Stayman! The Scientists are allowed to play any system and convention they like. 56 boards (IMPs) to be played Thursday, 48 (Goulash) Friday. On day 1 the Naturalists get a head start: 1 IMP per board. So when the match begins they are effectively up by 56 IMPs. Honours are added when applicable. Needless to say, the stakes are very high. How high remains to be seen. We are quite hopeful that this event will attract a large crowd. Sounds like great fun, doesn't it? I will try to get some of our best commentators to cover the event, but I can't promise anything at this point. http://online.bridgebase.com/vugraph/sched...?order_by=event for schedule Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Wish that I could watch (damn job) Even so, I feel obliged to make the obvious comment: Are any of the "scientists" particularly known as scientific bidders? Maybe the Portland Club considers Stayman and transfer high science, but I doubt many others would agree... I know that beggars can't be chosers, but I'd much rather see something like the following: (Zia / Rosenburg + Helgemo / Helness) for the Naturalists versus (Meckwell + Grotheim-Aa) for the Scientists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted October 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 I know that beggars can't be chosers, but I'd much rather see something like the following: (Zia / Rosenburg + Helgemo / Helness) for the Naturalists versus (Meckwell + Grotheim-Aa) for the Scientists We have seen several celebrities before, but this format is completely new, not least the 56 IMP head start. I think it is refreshing. (1) New York 1965:Scientists (Roth-Stone, Stayman-Mitchell, Jordan-Robinson) defeated Traditionalists (Murray-Kehela, Becker-Hayden, Mathe-Schleifer) by 53 IMPs over 180 boards (2) London 1990:Scientists (Soloway-Goldman, Garozzo-Eisenberg) defeated Traditionalists (Zia, Chagas, Wolff, Forrester, rotating) by two sessions to one, although trailing in IMPs. (3) London 1992: Scientists (Hamman-Wolff, Meckstroth-Rodwell) defeated Traditionalists (Chagas-M. Branco, Forrester-Robson) by 70 IMPs over 128 deals, winning a $50,000 prize. Note that Zia is now on the other side. Naturalist in 1990, Scientist in 2007. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Zia wants to win :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Any idea what systems the scientists will be playing? I imagine that Zia and Robson will be playing together, what about the other three? Are they regular partners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted October 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Any idea what systems the scientists will be playing? I imagine that Zia and Robson will be playing together, what about the other three? Are they regular partners? We will likely get convention cards before start of play. You are right about Zia and Robson playing together. Gold-Hallberg will be playing Thursday, Brogeland-Hallberg Friday (because Brogeland is unavailable on Thursday). And no, the three are not regular partners in any combination. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 56 boards (IMPs) to be played Thursday, 48 (Goulash) Friday. On day 1 the Naturalists get a head start: 1 IMP per board. So when the match begins they are effectively up by 56 IMPs. Honours are added when applicable. Can someone explain this pls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron_1 Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Seems pointless given the obvious skill imbalance between the teams and the head start ... I fail to see how a win or a loose one way or another will offer meaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vang Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 the meaning is good advertising for bridge, not to estabilish which system is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted October 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Seems pointless given the obvious skill imbalance between the teams and the head start ... I fail to see how a win or a loose one way or another will offer meaning. Mr. Marchessini invites the whole world to his house to watch this match. If that is not a great way to promote bridge, I don't know what is. I have a feeling that many BBO members share the same view. If some think it's a bad idea, they will likely stay away from the vugraph rooms. Fair enough, but negativity is perhaps not the way forward if one wants to make our game even more popular. We were asked by the organisers in London if we thought this would be a good idea. It took Fred, Uday and myself less than 10 minutes (through e-mails back and forth) to agree that it is. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillHiggin Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Regardless of who is scientific and who is naturalistic, this sounds like a great show. Just putting the words "zia" and "goulash" in the same sentence sends tingles down my spine (I bet science has little to do with things on that day). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 I couldn't find anything about these traditionalists on the WBF site, who are they? The scientists are not regular partners, does that make sense? Looking at the amazing players who played in these memorable events in '65, '90 and '92, I'm not sure if this is right. 42 years from now, will people still remember this match? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 so long as there's champagne and croquet sandwiches to go around... or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Does anyone know if the scientists plan on using the same methods for the normal boards as for the goulash boards? I seem to recall from watching the vugraph of the goulash event that was on during the BB that there are goulash specific methods that seem as if they would be a huge win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 The naturalists get a 56 imp spot? I will bet on the scientists and lay 3:1. If interested PM me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jocdelevat Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 I wish good luck to Naturalists and lack of memory to scientists :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 56 boards (IMPs) to be played Thursday, 48 (Goulash) Friday. On day 1 the Naturalists get a head start: 1 IMP per board. So when the match begins they are effectively up by 56 IMPs. Honours are added when applicable. Can someone explain this pls? I don't get it either. Are honours added to the raw score before it gets converted to IMPs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdct Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 56 boards (IMPs) to be played Thursday, 48 (Goulash) Friday. On day 1 the Naturalists get a head start: 1 IMP per board. So when the match begins they are effectively up by 56 IMPs. Honours are added when applicable. Can someone explain this pls? I don't get it either. Are honours added to the raw score before it gets converted to IMPs? Fred better get his programming boots on! In practice I suspect that any imps (typically 3 imps if the same contract is bid and made in both rooms and there are 100 honours) will get manually added to carryover scores after each set. I'm sure the commentators will be keeping track of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 I'm sure the commentators will be keeping track of them. No, the operators will. Besides, honours only apply in the Goulash sessions on Friday. At least that was the last I heard from Zia. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sambolino Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 you may find these links useful Marchessini didn't play but in fact did organise previous ('92) event http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...75AC0A962958260http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...n=&pagewanted=1http://www.bcmchess.co.uk/bp/features/old_feature_8.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 And two more links, the first an interview with Lord Wolfson ... http://www.managementtoday.co.uk/search/ar...head-good-hand/ Then read about his granddaughter, Janet de Botton, a very wealthy bridge player at top level in England ... http://www.fmwf.com/newsarticle7.php?cat=23&id=105 (scroll down to the bottom) Fifteen years ago David Bird wrote a book with Terence Reese about one of the previous editions of this encounter. Marchessini was also involved then - with Forrester/Robson and Chagas/Branco on the Naturals side. In the book "Around the World in 80 Hands" by Zia and David Burn, they discuss the 1990 match in which Dimitri Marchessini put up (and retained) the £20,000 stake. By the way, on Thursday and Friday there will be no bidding boxes in use. The players must express themselves in the old-fashioned way: verbally. Just like it has been for decades and still is the case in the Portland Club in London. So our operators will be even busier than usual because they have to take notes. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulven Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 As a very good friend and long-time teammate of Gunnar Hallberg, I must say that finding him posing as a bidding scientist made me laugh hysterically!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 We are now allowed to let you know the total official stake which is £100 ($206) per IMP. However, there are likely to be some private side stakes, varying throughout the match as the personnel change. We imagine that the Goulash is the same per 100. The Portland have added Richard (Tony) Priday to their team. Priday is a former England internationalist with a European Team Championship to his name. He has also several nice results in World Championships and Olympiads, as a player as well as an NPC. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 As a very good friend and long-time teammate of Gunnar Hallberg, I must say that finding him posing as a bidding scientist made me laugh hysterically!!!! Posing is indeed the word. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted October 31, 2007 Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 Agree totally with Richard. If this is for promoting Bridge, then well and good. However to call this a "traditionalists vs scientists" match is a gross misnomer. Where are the relay systems; where are the big C systems etc etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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