Preempting partner

[Mbodell]

Last board of a team KO match that is much closer than it should be. None vulnerable, partner makes a second seat 2♥ bid. You are playing any 5-11 points, 6+ ♥. You are playing Ogust and 1430 over weak 2s and new suits are NF.

 

1. In this system what do you bid (and if you bid an asking bid, how will you continue over possible answers)?

 

2. If you play other systems over weak 2s, what do you bid (and again how do you continue opposite partners responses if you let/make partner bid again)?

 

[hv=d=w&v=n&s=s97hdakqt7cakqj53]133|100|Scoring: IMP

P - 2♥ - P - ???[/hv]

[whereagles]

Bid 3♦ (forcing). If pard now bids 3NT, you might consider following up with 4♣ (natural, of course) if you feel lucky. Otherwise just bid 5♣ and let him pick a game.

[the hog]

Nuno you misread the question. New suits are non forcing - a ridiculous handicap, I agree.

 

Given the constraints of the system, I would simply bid 5C. I would also have a lengthy discussion with partner afterwards and change the methods to something sensible, like new suits forcing.

[Guest Jlall]

I have 11 tricks in clubs in my hand so how bad can a 5C bid be?

[skjaeran]

I have 11 tricks in clubs in my hand so how bad can a 5C bid be?

It can't be too bad, but give partner ♠A or ♠KQ - that might be impossible for some though.

[whereagles]

Nuno you misread the question. New suits are non forcing - a ridiculous handicap, I agree.

It's so unusual that I didn't even read it.. lol. Guess I'll go with the flow and bid 5♣ then.

 

Some people use transfers over weak 2s. That's an agreement that solves a lot of problems in 1 go :P

[BillHiggin]

Be thankful that you have a suit. Forget about mentioning the ♦ option since your agreements seem to be based on the expectation that responder will often hold a suit that is better than opener's. Forget about some magic spade holding.

 

5♣ stands out.

[han]

Agree with 5C.

[cherdano]

5♣. If partner replies 5♥, one keycard outside of clubs, i may still hope that he will pass 6♣.

[pclayton]

5♣. If partner replies 5♥, one keycard outside of clubs, i may still hope that he will pass 6♣.

Arend is playing Super Geeber apparently.

 

I have a hard time coming up with why 5♣ is better than 4♣. Surely 4♣ is forcing?

[han]

Could we all stop this Gerber talk!

[P_Marlowe]

#1 5C, hopefully this is natural, else pass

#2 3C, forcing

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: The only issue I have with 5C is, that

it may interpreted as voidwood.

[P_Marlowe]

5♣. If partner replies 5♥, one keycard outside of clubs, i may still hope that he will pass 6♣.

Arend is playing Super Geeber apparently.

 

I have a hard time coming up with why 5♣ is better than 4♣. Surely 4♣ is forcing?

sure, but 4C could be interpreted as splinter.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[pclayton]

5♣. If partner replies 5♥, one keycard outside of clubs, i may still hope that he will pass 6♣.

Arend is playing Super Geeber apparently.

 

I have a hard time coming up with why 5♣ is better than 4♣. Surely 4♣ is forcing?

sure, but 4C could be interpreted as splinter.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

Pretty lousy system if we can't bid clubs naturally below the 5 level.

[Mbodell]

5♣. If partner replies 5♥, one keycard outside of clubs, i may still hope that he will pass 6♣.

Arend is playing Super Geeber apparently.

 

I have a hard time coming up with why 5♣ is better than 4♣. Surely 4♣ is forcing?

sure, but 4C could be interpreted as splinter.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

Pretty lousy system if we can't bid clubs naturally below the 5 level.

It may well be a lousy system that I play here; however, all the 3♣, 4♣, and 5♣ would all be natural and non-forcing.

 

At the table I bid 2NT Ogust to find out about partner's hand and she bid 3♥ which should mean 0 or 1 top ♥ and strong end of her range (a good 7-11). I decided our opponents weren't that good, and misjudged that we were ahead in the match by more than we actually were (our teammates "missed" a small nv slam that was a little less than 50% but which made) and chickened out (after all of the 7+-11 only 6 points at worst could be outside of spades) and bid 5♣ - there by calling in to question why I'd bid 2NT in the first place :). It turns out it was a lucky result since partner misbid and should have said 3♠ since she had AKJxxx of hearts and nothing outside.

 

Partner's hand (NORTH) was:

 

[hv=d=w&v=n&s=s862hakj954d95c92]133|100|Scoring: IMP

P - 2♥ - P - 2NT

P - 3♥ - P - 5♣[/hv]

 

Opponents cashed ♠AK and lead another spade. I ruffed in hand and cashed ♦AK and ruffed the third round of ♦ with the ♣9 and got the favorable 3-3 ♦ break and only a 4-1 ♣ split so we just made.

 

Our opponent's never bid the heart hand above and had the auction go:

P - P - P - 1♣

1♥ - P - P - 2♦

All pass

 

and the +6 IMPs meant we survived our first match by just 3. We went on to win the KO, so this board was pretty darn key.

[the hog]

"It may well be a lousy system that I play here; however, all the 3♣, 4♣, and 5♣ would all be natural and non-forcing."

 

This may also be a silly question, but why are they ALL nf?

[Mbodell]

"It may well be a lousy system that I play here; however, all the 3♣, 4♣, and 5♣ would all be natural and non-forcing."

 

This may also be a silly question, but why are they ALL nf?

No good reason. Basically partnership likes low bids over preempts as NF, and hasn't figured out specific meanings for any forcing bids other than 2NT and 4NT.

[han]

I can understand playing 3C and 5C as natural NF. But why on earth would you play 4C as natural, NF? That doesn't make any sense.

 

The opponents passing a reverse with an 8-count also doesn't make much sense so you were even. :P

[bid_em_up]

5♣. If partner replies 5♥, one keycard outside of clubs, i may still hope that he will pass 6♣.

Arend is playing Super Geeber apparently.

 

I have a hard time coming up with why 5♣ is better than 4♣. Surely 4♣ is forcing?

sure, but 4C could be interpreted as splinter.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

Be realistic please.

 

How can the preemptor make any use of a 4C splinter? Whats he supposed to do? Look at his 6-11 hcp and 6+ hearts and think "yea, I guess since I have no wasted values in clubs I can consider slam"?!?

 

This would be as bad of an agreement as agreeing to play new suit non-forcing.

[helene_t]

4♣ could be a fit-showing bid, though.

 

But if it could be natural NF, Gerber or Splinter, I'm sure it could be Swiss as well :P

[han]

Why is a splinter not useful? Seems like looking at your weak 2 and saying "hey I have close to a maximum with nothing wasted in clubs, we likely have slam" is a perfectly reasonable scenario.

 

There may be better uses (control ask, keycards, ..) but a splinter can certainly be useful.

[P_Marlowe]

5♣. If partner replies 5♥, one keycard outside of clubs, i may still hope that he will pass 6♣.

Arend is playing Super Geeber apparently.

 

I have a hard time coming up with why 5♣ is better than 4♣. Surely 4♣ is forcing?

sure, but 4C could be interpreted as splinter.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

Be realistic please.

 

How can the preemptor make any use of a 4C splinter? Whats he supposed to do? Look at his 6-11 hcp and 6+ hearts and think "yea, I guess since I have no wasted values in clubs I can consider slam"?!?

 

This would be as bad of an agreement as agreeing to play new suit non-forcing.

Hi,

 

1) 3C is forcing, means the default rule for splinter bids

make 4C a splinter

Can someone define a better meaning for 4C sure, but

unless you have done so, the default rule is valid

2) 3C is nonforcing, what should be the default meaning of

4C, natural (non-)forcing, will that be better?

4C is a jump, and I would guess the auction 2H - 4C

does sound similar as in a), so 4C may or may not have

a similar meaning

....

The splinter meaning may be uncommon, there may be better

meanings of the bid, but if you add a quantitative meaning to it,

only if max. than I guess, it will be nearly as good as anything else.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe