helene_t Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 In his "Human bridge errors", Chthonic argues that a reopening double should show extra values (at least at the 2-level). His case is that responder, with some awkward 7-9 point that could not act over the overcall, is better placed after the reopening double if it shows extras. The consequence of this treatment is that a GF responder cannot risk to trap pass but must typically bid 3NT immediately. Anyone playing this? Am I right in saying that it only makes sense in a strong-NT system with forcing freebids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Kleinman LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 I am not sure what the LOL by Phil is for, I think this style is very reasonable. Reopening doubles at the 2-level showing 12-20 hcp are very awkward, not only when responder has the range he is mentioning, also when opener has extras but can't show them without forcing to the 4-level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 I am not sure what the LOL by Phil is for, I think this style is very reasonable. Reopening doubles at the 2-level showing 12-20 hcp are very awkward, not only when responder has the range he is mentioning, also when opener has extras but can't show them without forcing to the 4-level. The style is reasonable Arend. Kleinman just has a mixed reputation as a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 There's a very old statistical result by Emile Borel about balancing auctions. According to him, if you have a major(s), balancing is statistically favorable with as little as 7 hcp. If you don't have a major(s), even balancing on 12 hcp can lead to a bad score. This was meant for 1 level openers, at a time when openers were sound. Still, I believe it should go through at the 2+ level and for today's style. So what Chthonic is saying is only valid if you don't have the majors. Either that or Borel was wrong. Given Borel was a brilliant mathematician, my money's on him :D Too bad no more great mathematicians study our game. I guess I'll have to do some work myself... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Whereagles, maybe I was unclear, but the issue is:1♦/♥/♠-(2♣/♦/♥)-pass-(pass)X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 ah. well, then Chthonic's dbl is like marshall miles style :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 To put it mildly I think this style is completely horrible. You cannot pass with a stiff and a minimum, partner is trapping too often. All I know is when I'm red/red and I hold AQTxx KQx Kx xxx and it goes 1C 2S to me, I don't want to be forced to bid 3N because my partner doesn't feel comfortable reopening with a double on a minimum. The less points you hold in this auction the more likelihood there is that partner is trapping. If you play negative doubles you need to protect against this chance when it is so likely. If Kleinman is so worried about what partner will do with 7-9 points maybe he should learn lebensohl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 At the risk of slight thread drift, there is another situation that has similar problems, although perhaps there are differences also: N............E............S 1N(nat)...2H(nat)....? My preferred style here is to double for take-out, neither promising nor denying game interest. Opener's rebid includes Lebensohl, to protect against South having a game try. If South passes, North will frequently reopen with a double when holding a doubleton in the opponent's suit, otherwise will normally pass. A downside to this is that with a penalty double South has to choose between passing and committing to game. With less than game values South would pass and hope for the reopening double. With values for game South would probably bid the game (scoring and vul playing a part), because the risk of opener passing it out is (I think) rather higher than after a suit opener. It is an uncomfortable choice to make, much of the time, but reckoned to be justified on frequency grounds, being more than compensated by the benefits of the takeout double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 To put it mildly I think this style is completely horrible. You cannot pass with a stiff and a minimum, partner is trapping too often. All I know is when I'm red/red and I hold AQTxx KQx Kx xxx and it goes 1C 2S to me, I don't want to be forced to bid 3N because my partner doesn't feel comfortable reopening with a double on a minimum. The less points you hold in this auction the more likelihood there is that partner is trapping. If you play negative doubles you need to protect against this chance when it is so likely. If Kleinman is so worried about what partner will do with 7-9 points maybe he should learn lebensohl. Agree completely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Agree with Justin. Not only will passing out 2X when you have shortness in their suit make you miss some great penalties, it will also make you lose many partscore swings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 I had misread the question. A reopening double by opener after a pass of an overcall does not show extras, only shortness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 The 'awkward 7-9' fearing a minimum, didn't act. Now the minimum opener reopens to say 'your awkward must not be awkward' Isn't that saying 'partner, you don't know how to bid YOUR hand, so I will?Never minimum reopen for me. But Major accent may upgrade min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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