another who's to blame

[gwnn]

[hv=d=e&v=n&n=sxhaqjtxxdjxxckxx&s=sk8xxxhxdkxxxxcxx]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

(1♣)-1♠-p-2♥(forcing)

p-2♠-all pass

 

-500 (W forgot to double)

 

other table E opened weak nt W transfered and passed for +140.

[ArtK78]

You did not offer both as an option. Both are at fault, but the blame goes primarily to South for that overcall.

 

South's overcall is awful (I know from reading these threads that many will disagree with me, but that's life). North bid hearts - that was sensible. South's rebid of that awful spade suit was an abomination. He should pass (assuming that 2♥ was not forcing). North has a problem, but he should probably rebid his hearts.

 

3♥ won't be a success, but it is unlikely that it will be doubled.

 

EDIT: I see that the 2♥ bid was forcing. North has his bid, but he should continue by bidding 3♥. South has little choice over 2♥ but to bid 2♠ (yuck!). He can't very well introduce his diamond suit. But the result should be the same - North should rebid 3♥ and that will be the final contract.

[P_Marlowe]

Partly bad luck, and the rest South.

The overcall is at best sub. min., and

I can only understand 1S if you could not

show the 2-suiter, i.e. a Michales Cue would

have shown the mayor, and now some

share goes to the methods.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[andy_h]

North should rebid 3H. If the partnership is allowed to overcall light, maybe having 2/1 bids by advancer as constructive NF is best.

[brianshark]

I'm actually going to give more blame to north than south for the failure to pull to 3♥ which is the correct bridge decision. The overcall was crap but some people can't pass and it's more partnership style than anything. Plus they can often work out if you find a fit. And the methods are standard enough so I won't blame them either.

 

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I'll yell at any partner for overcalling a hand like that! In no way do I condone it! ;)

[Codo]

Hang south for this 1 Spade bid.

But if this is okd in your partnership, play 2 HEart as nonforcing. Else you will often be in such an awkward situations.

[vang]

methods. play rubens advances.

[jdonn]

North should rebid 3♥, all the more knowing that the 2♠ rebid doesn't show good spades but just a minimum.

 

I also agree with the sentiment that it's ok to be able to overcall on these hands (well better than ok) but if you do you want to play a new suit as non-forcing. New suit forcing makes sense if the style is sounder.

[awm]

I will blame the methods.

 

It's okay to overcall on lousy hands with some shape. And it's okay to play new suits forcing when advancing partner's overcall. But these two things really don't go well together. If you play a style where you overcall on junk, you need some non-forcing responses to get out of overcaller's lousy suit without having to play at the three-level.

 

Rubens advances are nice too, although they can be abused.

[helene_t]

Forcing advances fit better with a sound overcall style.

[Edmunte1]

1. Overcalling style - just overcalling a 6hcp hand at unfavorable with a bad 5 card suit cannot be winning bridge (not for me at least). Overcalling at this colours should show either a good suit or a decent hand.

2. Response methods, playing new suit as NF or Rubens Advances is much better

[Finch]

North should rebid 3♥, all the more knowing that the 2♠ rebid doesn't show good spades but just a minimum.

 

I also agree with the sentiment that it's ok to be able to overcall on these hands (well better than ok) but if you do you want to play a new suit as non-forcing. New suit forcing makes sense if the style is sounder.

Yeah, what he (and most other posters) have said.

[whereagles]

I guess if South pass, his LHO will bid something and pard will butt-in with 2♥. After this, opps may or may not bid, but in any case you'll have a lesser problem.

 

After South's 1♠, there's no reasonable way to stop below the 3 level, though I think North should press on with 3♥. Rubens advances wouldn't change this much: if North transfers and South accepts, wouldn't you make an invite in 3♥?

[bid_em_up]

I voted methods although I would prefer to give all the blame to South for overcalling this trash vulnerable.

[skjaeran]

methods. play rubens advances.

Agree. Easy stop in 2♥.

[kenrexford]

If I overcall this type of junk (SOUTH), I'm jump overcalling (WEAK) 2♠. But, I'm not doing that red on white.

 

Some people do. I think this deal provides one atrgument against. I'm sure there are other arguments for, and solutions, and caveats. I just like 1♠ overcalls red on white to mean something meaningful.

[Guest Jlall]

I hate new suit forcing so much after a 1 level overcall, but I guess that's not surprising since I would automatically overcall with this hand.

[pclayton]

I like New Suit Forcing after overcalls, except in a 2/1 situation.

[dicklont]

The South hand is not good enough for a 1♠ overcall.

[gwnn]

would N really really pass south's simple trnf completion?

 

wouldn't S also bid 2♥ on

 

AKxxx

Kxx

xxx

qx

 

?

[Guest Jlall]

would N really really pass south's simple trnf completion?

 

wouldn't S also bid 2♥ on

 

AKxxx

Kxx

xxx

qx

 

?

erm, no thats a normal 3H bid.

[gwnn]

would N really really pass south's simple trnf completion?

 

wouldn't S also bid 2♥ on

 

AKxxx

Kxx

xxx

qx

 

?

erm, no thats a normal 3H bid.

won't the superaccept take us too high sometimes?

[awm]

So the problem with Rubens advances (which is not really a problem, just some people abuse them) is that there are three types of hands where you want to bid over partner's overcall:

 

(1) GF hands

(2) Hands where you have hope of game opposite a "real" hand from partner

(3) Hands where you just want to bail out of partner's suit into your long suit

 

If you play natural advances (not transfer) then your options are:

 

Advances forcing. Easy to handle type (1). On type (2) you are okay but will often have to play at the three level when partner has junk. On type (3) you pretty much have to pass and stay fixed.

 

Advances NF Constructive. Easy to handle type (2). On type (1) you have to make something up, either cue w/o support or bid naturally and risk a pass, or play forcing jump shifts which can be awkward and remove fit jumps. On type (3) you pretty much have to pass and stay fixed, although you can bid and rebid and accept playing at the three level.

 

Advances Weak. Solves type (3), but you're pretty well fixed on both (1) and (2).

 

Most people play advances NF constructive in the USA anyway, but advances forcing have some adherents especially among sounder overcallers.

 

The point is, if you play Rubens transfer advances you can pretty much take your pick of any two of the three possibilities and handle them easily. But you can't really handle all three. The point is that if your transfer includes possibility (3), you basically want partner making a simple accept on all non-fit hands (so you can bail) which makes it impossible to get out on type (2) without forcing the three level (since partner would make a simple accept on hands that make game opposite hand 2). If your transfer includes possibility (2), then you want partner to have the option of breaking the transfer (or super-accepting) when he has something good, which will fix you when you have type (3) but keeps you low when you have (2) opposite trash.

 

Some people try to play Rubens advances where the transfer includes all three hand types, and this tends to get them in trouble. With that said, it's a great convention when used properly.

[jdonn]

would N really really pass south's simple trnf completion?

 

wouldn't S also bid 2♥ on

 

AKxxx

Kxx

xxx

qx

 

?

erm, no thats a normal 3H bid.

won't the superaccept take us too high sometimes?

I don't think so, after all if you overcalled spades and partner bids 2♥ wouldn't you raise in a heartbeat?

[the hog]

The 1S overcall is fine, not "crap" or "junk". I would play change of suit as nf, or better still as a Rubens advance as has already been posted here.