Precision 2D question

[blackshoe]

Suppose you've agreed, as a general principle, that you will treat A or K stiff as if it were a doubleton. (Never mind whether you like this idea).

 

Now suppose you're playing the "standard" Precision 2♦ opening: 4=4=1=4, 4=4=0=5, 4=3=1=5, or 3=4=1=5, about 11-15 points.

 

Do you open 2♦ with a stiff A or K of diamonds, or do you treat it as a balanced hand? Or do something else?

 

Does it make any difference if your 2♣ opening shows six clubs (i.e., you don't open 2♣ with 5 clubs and a 4 card major).

[Guest Jlall]

I generally open 1D with stiff K/A playing the methods you describe (which I often do). This goes against my general principles (shape first) but 2D eats up a lot of room and partner has to do some guess work and will always misjudge your honor location. Also most of the people I respect who also play these methods seem to open 1D on these hands (joe grue, geoff hampson, mike passell, others). I admit I do not have a large enough sample size of hands where I am playing these methods and have held one of these shapes with stiff A/K to say from experience which way I think is better.

[blackshoe]

Thanks, Justin.

[mycroft]

I don't know what Berkowitz does in real life, but in his book he has 2D-2NT; 3NT as "14-15, 4414, stiff A or K"; so perhaps if you limit it to the hands where you'd be happy rebidding 3NT, and 1D (or 1NT, shh) on the rest, it might work.

 

If you have another useful meaning for 2D-2NT; 3NT, go for it.

 

Michael.

[Tcyk]

Suppose you've agreed, as a general principle, that you will treat A or K stiff as if it were a doubleton. (Never mind whether you like this idea).

 

Now suppose you're playing the "standard" Precision 2♦ opening: 4=4=1=4, 4=4=0=5, 4=3=1=5, or 3=4=1=5, about 11-15 points.

 

Do you open 2♦ with a stiff A or K of diamonds, or do you treat it as a balanced hand? Or do something else?

 

Does it make any difference if your 2♣ opening shows six clubs (i.e., you don't open 2♣ with 5 clubs and a 4 card major).

I believe you have to open these hands with 2D if you are going to stay within the system. There are ways to show the stiff diamond honor.

 

On the other hand, I believe we should forget about opening 2C with only 5 clubs and a 4-card major and especially with a 4-card diamond suit. An opening bid of 1D (or 2D with proper shape) will handle these hands very nicely. When your partner opens 1D your first priority is to look for a 4-card major suit fit. This is done at the 1-level instead of the 2-level if you had opened the bidding with 2C. The only reason for opening 2C with a 5-card club suit is if you promise 3 or 4 diamonds when you open 1D (as many people do).

 

When I open 1D and rebid 2C I always alert the 2C as "Clubs may be longer than diamonds." But then I do that playing 2 over 1 too since with xx45 shape and a minimum hand I will open diamonds instead of clubs.

[DYates]

A potential problem is that if you like the idea of A or K treated as Ax, Kx, (i don’t) then playing Precision, all your 4x1 with stiff honor and 13-15 are now one no-trump openings. Be aware that ACBL alert procedures require an alert for systemically unbalanced NT openings. If you did this only with =44A4 or =44K4, it is not probably a huge problem as your opponents will be happy to see you miss major suit fits.

 

Standard Precision is to open 2D with the hand you describe.

 

Though I played 1D as 0+ diamonds for years and never had a problem. (2D was 6+ D, and 2C always promised 6+C).

 

The standard Precision 2D opener is very effective when it comes up. I found I hated opening two clubs with 4M and 5 only clubs. It is a very weak part of the system.

 

I'd advise to at least shorten 1D to 2+ and make 2C always 6+. You'll handle competitive auctions much better. (Are there any other types nowadays?)

[benlessard]

I'd advise to at least shorten 1D to 2+ and make 2C always 6+. You'll handle competitive auctions much better. (Are there any other types nowadays?)

 

We play 1D is at least 4 unbalanced, 2C could be (5C,4M) and 2D is weak. So with the 4414 we have to lie into a weak nt,a strong nt or a 1M opening its not something im proud of but for us the usefulness of a preemptive 2D far outweight the specific case of the 4414. 2D multi & 2H with hand short in D is possible but again i dont think its worth it.

 

For the (34)15 or 4405 Its difficult for me to asses the effectiveness of a 2D openings because of a lack of practice of those method. But with those hand I have no problems opening them 2C. The competitive auction argument is a weak argument because the guarantee of a the 3rd (or in our case a 4th diamond) is a better deal then a 6th clubs.

 

 

IMHO the main reason why top player tend to shorten the 1D bid is because they are are not satisfied with the old precision methods to answer 2C. My feeling is that if you think that opening 2C is a weak part of your system then your responses systems aint up to date. Because 2C opening for many pairs give them a steady income of IMPs compared to natural methods. In MP imho 2C with a good responses structure break even with those playing natural. Only the polish club is getting an edge for the the club suit since some of their club suit hand can be opened 1C, 2C or 1D.

[Hilver]

A potential problem is that if you like the idea of A or K treated as Ax, Kx, (i don’t) then playing Precision, all your 4x1 with stiff honor and 13-15 are now one no-trump openings. Be aware that ACBL alert procedures require an alert for systemically unbalanced NT openings. If you did this only with =44A4 or =44K4, it is not probably a huge problem as your opponents will be happy to see you miss major suit fits.

 

Standard Precision is to open 2D with the hand you describe.

 

Though I played 1D as 0+ diamonds for years and never had a problem. (2D was 6+ D, and 2C always promised 6+C).

 

The standard Precision 2D opener is very effective when it comes up. I found I hated opening two clubs with 4M and 5 only clubs. It is a very weak part of the system.

 

I'd advise to at least shorten 1D to 2+ and make 2C always 6+. You'll handle competitive auctions much better. (Are there any other types nowadays?)

Opening 2C with only 5 clubs isn't always fun, indeed. So I play 2C as 6+ card clubs, a 4-card major is possible. It's very suitable in practise.