Missed slam - ideas?

[pclayton]

Missed two cold slams on Saturday. Any ideas / blame for this bidding?

 

1.

 

[hv=w=sktxxhakxdatxcqxx&e=sahqjxxxxxxdxxcax]266|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

1♥ - 1♠ - 2♥ - 3♣ - 4♥ - Pass

 

2.

 

[hv=w=sktxxhakxdatxcqxx&e=sahqjxxxxxxdxxcax]266|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

1♦ (P) 1♥ (2♠)

3♠ (Dbl) Pass (pass)

4♥ AP

[jdonn]

1. Not to bring up this discussion again, but how much easier if west can just bid 2♣ game forcing at his first turn, then set trumps next? I'm sure people will question the bidding of both players and find auctions to reach slam, and they will probably be right, but anyone responding 1♠ is playing catch-up for the rest of the auction.

 

If 1♠ is forced I like a 4♥ rebid by east. I never play this shows power, just long hearts and a shot at game. After all the optimist in me says I need nothing but KQ of clubs and the wrong lead.

 

2. Just at a glance I'm not sure why east didn't bid 4♣ over the double, nor why he passed 4♥. Most would in fact play west's auction as showing four card support and east has a monster on the auction. You could argue that west should bid differently, but surely not that he left any of his strength unsaid, so it's up to east.

[P_Marlowe]

#1 tough, I dont like, that West never showed support,

but I fail finding an alternative route, unless you play

2NT as answer to 1H as Jacoby (requiring only 3 card support)

or at least as a bal. game forcing raise for hearts.

Not sure if this would help, the single Ace and both doubletons

are needed, so ...

East cant really do more, he opened, and showed long hearts.

 

#2 I dont like 3S, I would prefer to show the diamonds, but since

you play MP going after 3NT is certainly the winning strategy,

in the given sequence 4H bid does not sound very convincing,

so East wont interpret the 4H as a forward going move and passes.

 

Overall I would say next board.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[bhall]

On the first hand, a jump rebid of 4♥ over 1♠ ought to show a hand with very long hearts that was unsuited to an initial preempt, typically with two quick tricks. This hand certainly qualifies. Responder could cue 5♦ over 4♥, but while that implies a lack of club control with slam interest, it hardly shows both top hearts.

 

On the basis that opener holds 2 QT, responder could reason that they are either the ♦KQ and a black A or both aces. That makes 4N RKC a safe choice, and the partnership might well reach 6N.

 

On the second hand, the 3♠ cue asks for a stop OR shows a fit, so responder cannot assume a fit. Passing to let opener clarify seems reasonable, but then passing 4♥ is too conservative; surely his hand is worth a 5♣ cue. It is true that opener's sequence now does not show a spade control, but 5♥ should be safe.

 

Opener has a tough choice after 3♠-X-P-P. Since XX tends to show first round spade control, maybe 4♠ is his best choice. You can then have long arguments about whether the bid implies hearts, or only guarantees a self-sufficient ♦ suit.

[kenrexford]

First:

 

Count one more (repeaqted) vote for 2♣.

 

1♥(natural)-P-2♣-P-

2♥(OK, I don't bid 2♦ here!!!)-P-3♥-P-

3♠(spade control 1st or 2nd)-P-3NT(Serious)-P-

4♣(clubs Ace or King or Queen)-P-4♦(LTTC)-P-

4♥(no diamond control)-P-4♠(I have that, but I want to answer; spade control)-P-

4NT(OK)-P-5♣(3)-P-

???

 

Hopefully we stop here.

----

 

Second:

 

General point. The pass by Responder should mean something about spades. Regardless of what you agree, though, Opener has a friggin' monster, and the spade control. I'd bid 3NT serious now. Responder will obviously cue 4♣. I'll then, as Opener, feel comfortable leaving the four-level.

[han]

Agree with most of what jdonn said.

[Impact]

Agree with most points made by others:-

 

1. I hate and despise the 1S bid: it does not help unless opener raises S with at least 4, as we have not shown our support, have not GF and have not shown a significant length of suit. A relay, an dindeterminate but GF 2C or even a GF raise is better.

 

Over 1H-1S if forced

2H(?) - why not 4D? or is that a splinter? At least you are putting partner in the picture and giving a clue.

 

Opener's hands with very long suits but some defensive strength are well-suited (sic!) to a combination of NAMYATS and Acol twos if played. This has too much defensive outside strength for my style of NAMYATS and is the absolute bottom end of a Courtney-Acol two!

 

2. I think opener did fine with 3S which we interpret initially as DAB: the 2 Aces are good but the singleton opposite the presumed solid 7D is not ideal, neither is the doubleton small in S!

 

As an aside I play that when a DAB is doubled :-

Pass=semistop/singlestop such that XX asks (bid 3NT with full stop only)

XX= xx(x....)

3NT= 1.5(+) stops

suit= singleton in their suit

cue = void in their suit

 

On that basis, XX is correct from responder - and now opener knows there is no wastage (albeit no knowledge of values) opposite and may punt 5D (over which responder MUST bid 6 with 2 bullets) or bid 4H unless that confirms a 4card H raise (but if it shows 7solid D and good 3H and extras the problem for responder is his doubleton S with poor trumps) or prevaricate with 4D.

 

Of course a lot of people play 3S as a general force (which makes other bids more specific and many typically just invitational) but leaves you guessing on dialogue bidding as opposed to interrogation.

If 3S established a GF, the rebid of 4D is sufficient albeit not providing much solace or information about the H quality.

Another possibility is that it shows a GF but denies 4card H support in which case 4H is OK but you haven't necessarily shown a D suit of quite this power (and virtual self-sufficiency)...anyway slam fail(ed when both red suits broke 4-1 but then there would be no story)..

 

regards,

[Codo]

1. Of course 1 ♥ 2 ♣ as an artifical gf will solve this and other problems. But is not too easy to handle and it was surley not discussed in this partnership.

 

So my bidding had been:

1 ♥ 1 ♠ 2 ♥ 4 ♥

 

2 Heart shows 6+hearts 12-15 points., so with a balanced 16, 4 Heart is enough.

This raise is nice for opener, and should be nice enough to bid again. And if he does, 6 H is easy.

 

 

2. It is a matter of style, but you should know how to show support after opps bidding. If x had shown 3 card support, 3 Spade was wrong. If 3 Spade shows 4 card support, pds pass after the double was wrong. What about a 4 Club bid, showing the control? If 3 Spade aks for a stopper, 4 Heart was an underbid.

If 3 Spade shows an unsecific strong hand with or without support, you better change the system.