sit for u2nt?

[Walddk]

1♥ - 1♠

2♣

 

How many hearts and clubs does opener show, and what is the point range?

I'll bite as a self identified I player (assuming SA):

 

5+♥ and 4+♣ with anything from a decent 12 (maybe less if that's your style) to a bad 16. Some possible sample shapes include 1=5=3=4, 1=5=2=5, 2=5=1=4, 1=6=0=5.

I agree with the first part (shape), but not with the second. What do you do with a good 16-17, even 18? Jump shift and force to game opposite what may be 5-6 hcp?

 

This is what I hear much too often I'm afraid. "Opener shows a minimum", but that is not correct. He shows a minimum or a medium, so the range is roughly 12-18.

 

Roland

[Mbodell]

1♥ - 1♠

2♣

 

How many hearts and clubs does opener show, and what is the point range?

I'll bite as a self identified I player (assuming SA):

 

5+♥ and 4+♣ with anything from a decent 12 (maybe less if that's your style) to a bad 16. Some possible sample shapes include 1=5=3=4, 1=5=2=5, 2=5=1=4, 1=6=0=5.

I agree with the first part (shape), but not with the second. What do you do with a good 16-17, even 18? Jump shift and force to game opposite what may be 5-6 hcp?

 

This is what I hear much too often I'm afraid. "Opener shows a minimum", but that is not correct. He shows a minimum or a medium, so the range is roughly 12-18.

 

Roland

Interesting, is this a style thing, or am I just totally wrong and the method you describe really the only SA method?

 

I've played:

1♥-1♠

3♣

 

as a (by agreement) F1, not a strictly GF when done after a 1/1 response, and would do it with the good 16-18 unbalanced hands. You are right that I'd generally not settle for any contract below 3NT though. But as a responder I wouldn't have 5 HCP either, especially without a fit.

[Guest Jlall]

What Roland describes is clearly correct. Jump shifts are game forcing. This is true in all "standard" methods. Of course you can introduce some artificiality and special treatments, but in standard bridge JS are game forcing so 2C may include up to 18.

[vuroth]

get the basics right first! Now I have probably offended a bunch of beginners and intermediates, but so be it.

This is my second go-around at mastering SAYC, and this is the approach I'm taking (THIS time). It's amazing how you can put aside all the conventions and STILL have lots and lots of questions. :P

[jillybean]

I hope Kathryn won't take offence

No offence taken.

I'm not consciously trying to add conventions, often the answer to a problem is 'add a convention'. Hell, I have enough trouble understanding and remembering all the sequences, is it forcing, non-forcing, bidding up the line, bidding higher ranking suit first, how many am I showing and so on.

I know half the messes I get myself in wouldnt happen if I had the fundamentals right and agreed on. :)