sit for u2nt?

[jillybean]

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=sakxxxhjxxxdxxcxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP

(P) P (1♠) 2N

(P) ?[/hv]

 

Pass or bid?

[Walddk]

Not with that hand. It's almost never right to pass an unusual 2NT. Your partner's hand is normally useless in a notrump contract. Pick one of your (his) minors and look happy ;)

 

Roland

[jdonn]

There are hands where pass is possible (although not really if partner is an unpassed hand, since he is unlimited) but anyway this isn't one of them. Bid for sure.

[neilkaz]

There are hands where pass is possible (although not really if partner is an unpassed hand, since he is unlimited) but anyway this isn't one of them. Bid for sure.

Agreed 100%.

[jillybean]

Not with that hand. It's almost never right to pass an unusual 2NT. Your partner's hand is normally useless in a notrump contract. Pick one of your (his) minors and look happy  ;)

 

Roland

I did and I was :) It just made me wonder what type of hand you need before pass is a better option.

 

[hv=d=w&v=n&n=sak853hj972d54c62&s=s94h85dakj6ckqj83]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 Pass  Pass  1♠    2NT

 Pass  3♣    Pass  Pass

 Pass  

 

PS Here's a hand where if partner had corrected to 3♦, I bid ♥'s? 4 of them ;)

[pclayton]

Not with that hand. It's almost never right to pass an unusual 2NT. Your partner's hand is normally useless in a notrump contract. Pick one of your (his) minors and look happy  ;)

 

Roland

I did and I was :) It just made me wonder what type of hand you need before pass is a better option.

 

[hv=d=w&v=n&n=sak853hj972d54c62&s=s94h85dakj6ckqj83]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 Pass  Pass  1♠    2NT

 Pass  3♣    Pass  Pass

 Pass  

 

PS Here's a hand where if partner had corrected to 3♦, I bid ♥'s? 4 of them ;)

I would kindly inform your pard that its not a good idea to make an Unusual 2N call with only 9 cards in the minors. I wouldn't be too concerned with avoiding a 4-2 fit by passing 2N.

 

Much better to guess which is the better strain. With 1-1 in the minors, its a tougher decision.

[neilkaz]

I agree with Phil that the U2NT is not my call with 45 in the minors and 2-2 in the majors. I'll just overcall 2♣ and aviod all the confusion and risk that can result from U2NT.

[Walddk]

Perhaps it would be a good idea if you tell your partner, politely of course, that 2♣ is his call, not 2NT which shows at least 5-5 in the minors.

 

Roland

[P_Marlowe]

why not?

 

We are green and not doubled yet,

so pass is ok, you will most likely go

down, but currently we just talk about

400, worst case scenario and most likely

it will be less than 200, and it is not clear

if we can make 3m.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[pclayton]

why not?

 

We are green and not doubled yet,

so pass is ok, you will most likely go

down, but currently we just talk about

400, worst case scenario and most likely

it will be less than 200, and it is not clear

if we can make 3m.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

Passing is a sure way to start the opponents doubling.

 

A direct 3♣ (slightly more flexible than 3♦) is likely to avoid a double, unless one of the hands has a big stack or substantially extra values.

[awm]

I think 3♣ is a better call than 3♦. Most of the time partner will (should?) have 5-5 in the minors and it won't matter.

 

But what if partner has 6-5? Then we'd like to be in the six-card suit. With 5♦+6♣, if you bid clubs first it can be very difficult to introduce diamonds later. This makes it appealing to bid 2NT right off. With 6♦+5♣, it's easy to overcall diamonds and then bid clubs next. So the 2NT bid, if 6-5, is much more likely to have six clubs.

[helene_t]

2N is unlimited and therefore forcing. Occasionally I've gambled to pass a multi 2♦ even if it includes a strong variant, but, technical (de)merits aside, you need confidence in partner's sense of humor to do that.

 

Assuming that you do have confidence in p's sense of humour, I agree with Phil and others. I like Adam's argument btw.

[Guest Jlall]

2N is unlimited and therefore forcing.

Agree totally. Nothing else is really relevant once this is established (such as there being no reason to want to pass with this particular hand).

[jillybean]

Ok. One more question, IF the auction had gone:

 

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=sakxxxhjxxxdxxcxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP

(P) P (1♠) 2N

(P) 3♣ (P) 3♦ [/hv]

 

I can now happily bid ♥'s?

[pclayton]

Ok. One more question, IF the auction had gone:

 

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=sakxxxhjxxxdxxcxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP

(P) P (1♠) 2N

(P) 3♣ (P) 3♦ [/hv]

 

I can now happily bid ♥'s?

Nope - you happily rebid 3♠....

 

Pard should be showing a good 6-5 with 3♦. 3N may be the target if pard has a good heart stop along with those nice minor suit cards.

[jillybean]

Ouch Im thinking the correction to 3♦ shows ♦'s and ♥'s.

[helene_t]

No, ♥+♦ would be Michael's.

 

You can agree to play something else but beware that 2N as "any 2-suiter" may be a BSC (depending on how much strength it shows).

[Guest Jlall]

Ok. One more question, IF the auction had gone:

 

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=sakxxxhjxxxdxxcxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP

(P) P (1♠) 2N

(P) 3♣ (P) 3♦ [/hv]

 

I can now happily bid ♥'s?

Jilly, you are confusing 2 concepts.

 

You are right that in auctions where NT bids show ANY 2 suits that partner's correction shows the other 2 suits (ie 1S-p-2S-2N-p-3C-p-3D or 4S-4N-p-5C-p-5D). However here, 2N shows the minors always. The reason is that if partner had hearts and a minor he would bid 2S, michaels.

 

I disagree with Phil though, I would pass 3D in the auction described. Minor suit honors/length is really what's important, xx xx is very bad.

 

edit: helene is faster than me :P

[jillybean]

Yep I was confused.

So.. 'any other 2' is only ever after opps bid a minor, over a major 'other 2' is more specific, either both minors (u2nt) or other major and minor (michaels).

[cherdano]

Yep I was confused.

So.. 'any other 2' is only ever after opps bid a minor, over a major 'other 2' is more specific, either both minors (u2nt) or other major and minor (michaels).

No, a jump to 2N is always the lowest two unbid suits. "Any 2" only occurs in auctions like (1S) P (2S) 2N, or (4S) 4N.

[jillybean]

Arrrg I posted the last reply before rushing out the door and before reading the replies fully, back to square one.

[helene_t]

Kathryn, I think you have an entry about this any-twosuiter issue on your blog, we have discussed it before <_<

[jillybean]

Yes, thanks for noticing

[Walddk]

I hope Kathryn won't take offence when I say that this is yet another example of how confusion is a big risk when B/I's add convention upon convention. One person doesn't know what the Unusual 2NT shows (the guy who bid it with 4-5), and the other one thinks that a pull from 3♣ to 3♦ shows the red suits.

 

In my view you are much better off without those "silly" conventions. For the umpteenth time: get the basics right first! Now I have probably offended a bunch of beginners and intermediates, but so be it.

 

I teach hundreds of B/I's week after week in real life. Most of them ask questions about all sorts of conventions to add to their (non-existent) convention card. My reply is nearly always the same:

 

"Let's get back to that when you are ready for it".

 

When explained in a nice way, the players don't get offended. As a teacher I will be much happier when I get the correct answer to this question:

 

1♥ - 1♠

2♣

 

How many hearts and clubs does opener show, and what is the point range?

 

Roland

[Mbodell]

1♥ - 1♠

2♣

 

How many hearts and clubs does opener show, and what is the point range?

I'll bite as a self identified I player (assuming SA):

 

5+♥ and 4+♣ with anything from a decent 12 (maybe less if that's your style) to a bad 16. Some possible sample shapes include 1=5=3=4, 1=5=2=5, 2=5=1=4, 1=6=0=5.