pclayton Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Short team game, no one vul: ♠AJx ♥AKQTxx ♦9x ♣Jx Your opening bid as dealer? If you open 1♥, what is your plan after pard bids a forcing NT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 the misbid that first occurred to me was 1H followed by 2s. :)the one that occurred second was 1h followed by raising 1n to 2nthe one that is third is 1h followed by 2h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 I would open 1NT If I were to open 1♥, I'd rebid 2♥ after 1NT (I consider this slightly less of a lie than 3♥) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 1♥, then lets try 2NT?! argh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 I voted 1H and then 3H. My hand is reasonable and it is hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 1H followed by 3H, the hand is dead min. for the bid,but the hand is sufficient. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 1H followed by 3H. I think the hand is too strong for 1NT (if 15-17), so I see no reason to bury the hearts. I don't mind a 2NT rebid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 1♥ followed by 2♥. This is a 6-loser hand by modified losing trick count, which is not good enough for a 3♥ rebid (shows a 5-loser hand). If partner bids again, you can drive to game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 I find this to be an easy 1♥ - 3♥. Don't see anything else close. If 3NT is the spot, one or the other of us will be guessing anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 How does modified loser count distinguish between AJx and Axx? Does it distinguish between Jx and xx? If you can't distinguish, do you think it is right not to take any notice of these jacks? If it can distinguish then I don't get how you get to 7 losers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted October 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 I tried the 1♥ - 2♥ route. The heart suit is great, but I don't think the hand is much better than Axx AKQTxx xx xx. LHO decided to pre-balance over 2♥ with 2♠. Pard competed to 3♥ with: Txx xx KJ8xx Axx, which I thought was a little strange. I bid 3N, and its a good spot on a non-club lead and a fair spot on a club lead. Somehow the opps let this one in. At the other table, teammates let in 4♥. I have no idea how, since every pointed suit honor was off. For me it is a tweener between 2♥ and 3♥. Give me a singleton and its 3♥ for me. 2N would not occur to me - that shows 17+ - 19. Does this hand really evaluate to that? I think not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Minimal opening hands do not have 7 top tricks. I agree Jx is not much better than xx, but I think AJx is clearly a better holding than Axx. This hand has plusses and minusses. By ignoring the plusses and focussing on the minusses you don't get a fair evaluation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 How does modified loser count distinguish between AJx and Axx? Does it distinguish between Jx and xx? If you can't distinguish, do you think it is right not to take any notice of these jacks? If it can distinguish then I don't get how you get to 7 losers. The way I learned it, a working jack as in AJx is -1/4 loser. Jx is not adjusted for. I don't remember (if I ever knew) the exact criteria. Of course, LTC is not a complete surrogate for judgement, if you think that Jx is better than xx in context, adjust the LTC by -1/8 or whatever. This hand is 5.5 or 5.25 LT (depending on whether you take ♠J into account) but I'm not sure if LTC is appropriate for this decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 2N would not occur to me - that shows 17+ - 19. Does this hand really evaluate to that? I think not. Compare the trrick taking potential of this hand with that of your average balanced 3532 18-count, which is higher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 How does modified loser count distinguish between AJx and Axx? Does it distinguish between Jx and xx? If you can't distinguish, do you think it is right not to take any notice of these jacks? If it can distinguish then I don't get how you get to 7 losers. First, I said the hand is a six loser hand, not a 7 loser hand. Saying that the hand is a 6 loser hand is not the same thing as saying that the hand has 7 winners. MLTC is just a method of hand evaluation. Second, MLTC does not distinguish between AJx and Axx, nor does it distinguish between Jx and xx. That is where judgment comes into play. I don't find that the added jacks make this hand worth a 3♥ call or a 2NT call. This hand is, in my opinion, a maximum 2♥ rebid. It is always nice to have a little in reserve. And I know that my partners are not shy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted October 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 If you are calling Axx, AKQTxxx, xx, xx, a maximum 2H rebid, do the 2 black jacks tip the scale for you. They don't for me. K and R (that is notorious for upgrading long strong suits) calls the actual hand a 17.95. Without the black jacks (primarily the JS) its 17.2. FWIW, K and R calls xxx AKQTxx xx xx as a 13.0, so go figure. My judgment says this isn't a 17 point hand. My 3♥ rebids in a non-fit auction tend to be a little stronger too. I've been playing an 8-12 and 9-13 weak 2 lately, so this may have an influence too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 I have to admit I thought this was posted as a problem between 3♥, 2NT, or weird stuff like 2♣ or 2♠. 2♥ didn't even enter my head. I like 2NT, get toward our most likely game, and steal a lot of games that "shouldn't" be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Great problem Phil If you open sound then an easy 1h=2h rebid.If you open light this is a common problem hand(14-15 hcp), let me think about it for a few seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted October 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 2N would not occur to me - that shows 17+ - 19. Does this hand really evaluate to that? I think not. Compare the trrick taking potential of this hand with that of your average balanced 3532 18-count, which is higher? I think we are a favorite to take 7 tricks on this hand. Whether or not the opponents can take 5 or 6 tricks first is the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 2nt With so much side strength in spades. I do not think this promises as much as 17+-19 even assuming we may respond with less than 6 hcp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 In trying to get more info on the sign scandal from one multi WC we gave him this hand. To paraphrase: He rebid 3H...second choice was 3nt saying 2nt put partner in a poor position, partner may pass when 3nt makes on running suits and may get doubled when suits do not run. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 I would have gone with 2NT, but I cannot because for me that would be systemic. So, I'm stuck with 3♥. However, 2♣ has some appeal if allowed for these types of hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 I'd open 1♥ and rebid 3♥. 2NT is out since it's a conventional GF in my methods. Besides I don't think a natural 2NT is right with both minors wide open. We'd get to too many 3NT losing the first 5-7 tricks. If partner rebid 3NT over 3♥ I'm a tad more confident that we'll make. I'm sure we've got enough tricks after either route, but the latter seems to be better regarding opps possiblility to set us before we gain the lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 1H then 3H. In a bidding challenge, it is a clear 2N rebid though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 I'm gonna overbid this slightly and bid 3♥. Jacks or no jacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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