bhall Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 jdonn has stated that expert practice in auctions such as1N-2♦-2♥-3♦-3♠is NOT to play this new-suit bid below 3N primarily as a cue, but as a concentration that tends to imply a problem in stopping the fourth suit. While showing stoppers is a common practice over many minor-suit auctions, I don't believe that it is common, or wise, to do so here. Please let us know how you would play this bid, as well as whether you believe there is an expert consensus in this area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 for me it's either a cue in support of the second suit or identifying a problem in the 4th suit. I may bid over p's 3n if it is the former and i have a suitable hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 100% 3 spades agrees diamonds and is a cue...slam try...in D...not a try for 3nt!!! Of course none of the above means if partner(responder) rebids 3nt that you cannot pass. Axxx....Qx...Axxx....AJT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 Three spades shows -- spades! Normal bid with AQJxx Kx Kxx Jxx. It could be an advance cue, which opener will try to clarify later. I would be quite surprised if a substantial number of experts would disagree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 jdonn has stated that expert practice in auctions such as1N-2♦-2♥-3♦-3♠is NOT to play this new-suit bid below 3N primarily as a cue, but as a concentration that tends to imply a problem in stopping the fourth suit. No I haven't! Lordy lord lord. It is either a cuebid for the second suit, or implies weakness in the unbid suit (essentially the same as saying it shows spades, since you will always bid a real spade suit unless your clubs are very strong). That is standard, and is not even included among your choices. Some will also do this as a cuebid for the major but it is much more common (and surely better, for simplification) to just bid the major with support. The correct answer is "some of the above". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 Three spades shows -- spades! Normal bid with AQJxx Kx Kxx Jxx. It could be an advance cue, which opener will try to clarify later. I would be quite surprised if a substantial number of experts would disagree with this. With all due respect I would be shocked if 50% of Top class players play 3s=spades, ok...even 30%. In other words...Ax of spades is just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 100% 3 spades agrees diamonds and is a cue...slam try...in D...not a try for 3nt!!! Of course none of the above means if partner(responder) rebids 3nt that you cannot pass. Axxx....Qx...Axxx....AJT As always, I agree 100% with Mike777. ROTFLOL!!!!! Seriously, though, I play that the bid of the other major agrees diamonds, whereas 3♦ would agree clubs if clubs was the other minor, allowing the other major in a major-club auction to be natural. All real experts agree with me and Mike777, of course. More rotflol!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhall Posted October 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 jdonn has stated that expert practice in auctions such as1N-2♦-2♥-3♦-3♠is NOT to play this new-suit bid below 3N primarily as a cue, but as a concentration that tends to imply a problem in stopping the fourth suit. No I haven't! Lordy lord lord. It is either a cuebid for the second suit, or implies weakness in the unbid suit (essentially the same as saying it shows spades, since you will always bid a real spade suit unless your clubs are very strong). That is standard, and is not even included among your choices. Some will also do this as a cuebid for the major but it is much more common (and surely better, for simplification) to just bid the major with support. The correct answer is "some of the above".Sorry if I over-interpreted. Is it then accurate to say that you believe most experts play it as including three possibilities: (1) No stop in the 4th suit, only in the suit bid; (2) Cue in support of responder's second suit; and (3) An alternate trump suit for game? If so, it would appear that responder has somehow to field all three possibilties in his rebids. Responder's 3N rebid in particular looks dicey without discussion. Is his first duty to show a firm ♣ stop, assuming that you don't have a fit, unless he can play 5♦ on his own opposite Hxx? Or does 3N assume that you do have a fit, so that he is offering a choice of contracts with only mild slam interest? Or is 3N also ambiguous? Is 4♦ responder's default rebid without a firm ♣ stop, e.g., with 2=5=4=2? And is 4♥ over 3♠ then simply choice of games? I am not trying to be sarcastic, I honestly don't know to what extent you believe expert practice has defined these auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 I think what Mat and Josh describe is "standard". I do have sympathy for Arend's treatment and I wonder if it would have been more common if transfers had been invented after the practice op opening 1NT with a 5-card major. There is not much bidding space left so we cannot have our cake and eat it. Probably a creative use of1N-2♦2♥-2♠*would solve the problem. After all, playing Smolen, this bid is not so common in it's natural meaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 When I play transfers with a regular partner: 1N-2♦-2♥-3♦-? 3♥ = ♦ Fit3♠ = ♠ values, problem in ♣3NT = To play4♣ = Double fit, cue4♦ = ♥ fit, good hand4♥ = ♥ fit, bad hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 I think what Mat and Josh describe is "standard". I do have sympathy for Arend's treatment and I wonder if it would have been more common if transfers had been invented after the practice op opening 1NT with a 5-card major. Huh I must have explained this very badly because I agree 100% with Josh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 I think what Mat and Josh describe is "standard". I do have sympathy for Arend's treatment and I wonder if it would have been more common if transfers had been invented after the practice op opening 1NT with a 5-card major. Huh I must have explained this very badly because I agree 100% with Josh. You didn't state that it implies club weakness. A few months back, a partner bid 3♠ with AJxxx and KQx in the unbid suits because 3♠ is "natural", I presume you would not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 What's the point being able to show a problem in only 1 suit? I'd see it as a cue with fit for the second suit. With fit for the first suit (here ♥), you can just bid 3♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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