"We didn't vote for Bush"

[jonottawa]

...Do you want the team that wins the trials to provide copies of their income tax returns to the credentials committee? ...

No need to examine returns etc. Teams should registered for team trials as a "pro team" (3 or more paid players) or non-pro (very hard to represent a pro team as a non-pro team). If a pro-team wins the team trials, then:

 

a) if they want to use one or more clients as a player on the team they get no subsidy dollars, and they get to pick their own NPC, coach etc. and make arrangements as they see fit (their decision on NPC etc. can only be changed by first providing subsidy dollars);

 

b ) if they convert all clients on the team into non-players, such as into NPCs, coaches, etc., and then allow for the team to be filled out with other top players, then they get the full subsidy dollars.

I wouldn't go quite as draconian as officeglen, but I'd only give the rich guy (ya, I know, irony) a subsidy (and only his share,) since he's the only 'amateur'.

 

Edit: ... Actually, upon sober reflection, I don't think that's workable. I'd just discontinue all subsidies for US non-juniors. If the home unit or home district of the team (or just of some members of the team) want to hold a charity game and designate that team as the charity (similar to what was done in Ottawa for local members of Canada's BB and VC teams) that would be fine.

 

Excluding pros from receiving subsidies would be too much like a "some signs" rule. Having a policy of always giving subsidies funded largely by people whose greatest bridge aspiration is to consistently break average in a club game and having the recipients of those subsidies being pros and well-off clients 95%+ of the time is a fundamental misallocation of resources. Let the teams pay their own way (or raise the funds for a subsidy from the entry fees for the qualifying event.)

[mrdct]

Aren't the sponsors of the professional teams one of the main reasons why the USA has been so successful? Without the sponsors, the USA wouldn't have the volume of elite players to make the major NABC events and trials so competitive.

 

If the sponsor has met the minimum board playing requirements, they have just as much right to be there as anyone else.

 

Of course a lot of sponsors are very good bridge players in their own right, but just happen to have some spare cash to be able to assemble teams capable of winning world championships.

[Elianna]

I know people from Iran.  I've sympathised with my students while they wonder if their relatives will be ok, or if they'll be accused of made-up crimes, like others have in their communities.

 

I know many who are so grateful that they were able to get out, and have had parents so desparate that they send the kids out in the care of relatives or older siblings if there's no one else.

Accused of made-up crimes? Like what? Marijuana possession? Good thing they don't do that here. Here they don't accuse you of anything, they just lock you up and throw away the key. Much tidier that way.

 

And do you think that letting Cheney/Bush invade Iran will make your students' families' lives easier?

I don't support invasion of Iran, and my students don't, either. I never said that. You just were arguing that Iran has been maligned, and I'm pointing out that I know people from there who don't agree.

 

I also have yet to meet people in the US who have been accused of a crime solely for their religion. I'm not saying there aren't, I'm just saying I haven't personally met any. I haven't seen situations in the US where they forbid the head of a religious school to be a certain religion (maybe the US forbids certain schools, but that's a different topic).

[mike777]

I know people from Iran.  I've sympathised with my students while they wonder if their relatives will be ok, or if they'll be accused of made-up crimes, like others have in their communities.

 

I know many who are so grateful that they were able to get out, and have had parents so desparate that they send the kids out in the care of relatives or older siblings if there's no one else.

Accused of made-up crimes? Like what? Marijuana possession? Good thing they don't do that here. Here they don't accuse you of anything, they just lock you up and throw away the key. Much tidier that way.

 

And do you think that letting Cheney/Bush invade Iran will make your students' families' lives easier?

I don't support invasion of Iran, and my students don't, either. I never said that. You just were arguing that Iran has been maligned, and I'm pointing out that I know people from there who don't agree.

 

I also have yet to meet people in the US who have been accused of a crime solely for their religion. I'm not saying there aren't, I'm just saying I haven't personally met any. I haven't seen situations in the US where they forbid the head of a religious school to be a certain religion (maybe the US forbids certain schools, but that's a different topic).

Even if we assume the Iran government is super evil...why should we do something about it.......

 

If it is not we should do nothing....maybe talk...but do nothing

If it is we should do nothing.....maybe talk..but do nothing

 

easy.....

[gwnn]

why should we do something about it.......

cause it brings profit?

 

easy....

[mike777]

why should we do something about it.......

cause it brings profit?

 

easy....

Heck I just saw on cnn and msnbc usa tortures, puts people in jail and throws away key for no reason, illegal wiretaps, kills hundreds of thousands of moms and dads

 

all for profit....i guess but are not those people all ready rich????/

 

how big of a house do they need?

 

anyway.....at least the people of usa keep voting back in these folks......or do not bother to vote at all.......

[helene_t]

Scandinavia's governments are usually socialist, no?

Since WWII, social democrats vs "burgeous" (or "non-socialist", according to taste") have been appr. 50/50 in power in Denmark, while social democrats have had the lion's share in the other Nordic countries (Scandinavia and Finland, today the Baltic states are usually considered Nordic as well but I'm not referring to them) especially Sweden. I'm sure google can take you to more accurate figures.

 

Socialist vs Social Democrats: The party allied with Anglo-Saxon Labour parties is called "Social democrats" in Nordic countries, Germany, Netherlands, Turkey and Austria. Dutch "Socialists" and the Danish "Socialist people's party" are more left-winged on social issues. In France, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Greece and Italy, said party is called "socialists". Portuguese "Social democrats" are more right-winged.

 

Liberal: This term usually refers to an attitude to a specific issue (as opposed to restrictionist). You could say that Hrothgar is a liberal with respect to drugs but a restrictionist when it comes to pollution (except that maybe some would interpret "restrictionist" as favoring bans rather than taxes, not sure). You will rarely hear someone from continental Europe call himself a "liberal" as an indicator of general political orientation. There was a time during the later eighties when it was fashionable to label oneself as a "liberalist". I suppose I myself (together with Dutch left-environmentalist leader Femke Halsema) am one of the last liberalist dinosaurs - today it is largely used as a left-winger's swearword for a Thatcherist. OK I'll get flamed for that comment. General site note: ideology is largely dead in Europe. We don't have anything like the polarization you have in USA. Most people, even those with strong interest in politics, are buffet politicals/opportunists. In the Netherlands, the Christian Democrats recently tried to restore conservative ideology with their "norms and values" campaign, but today it is largely seen as a joke, even by their proponents. OK I'll get flamed for that one as well.

 

Parties allied with UK/Canadian liberals are from time to time prominent in some countries, but their profiles varies. Current Danish PM is from "Venstre" which is historically a somewhat left-liberal party associated with farmer's grassroot culture, as opposed to the Conservatives who are associated with elite urban culture. While a few of their ideologist dinosaurs (current minister of education Bertel Haarder) try to maintain that profile, on practical issues they are close allies of the conservatives. Denmark has a smaller liberal party as well which is usually environmentally restrictionist, culturally/economical liberal and socially rightwinged. The two parties belong to the same liberal fraction in the EP, that must be a colorful lot. Very similarly, we have two liberal parties in NL as well.

[mike777]

Sorry Helene but I really hate all this left wing, right wing stuff.

 

too confusing

 

 

 

right wing wants the poor to die and disappear and war all the time?

left wing want peace and love and health care for all?

I guess extreme right wing wants faster death and extreme left wing wants faster love?

[mike777]

Or liberals want peace, love and understanding

conservatives want money, money and war and more money.

[helene_t]

Sorry Helene but I really hate all this left wing, right wing stuff.

Agree, I don't care for those terms either. I should probably try to find other terms. Anyway, why don't you move to Europe, as I said ideology is dead here, sounds as if you would like that aspect of our culture. And if it's true what Jimmy says that you're a Contrarian, you will find a lot of peers here. :)

[blackshoe]

Political tags--such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and. so forth--are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.

[geller]

Even if we assume the Iran government is super evil...why should we do something about it.......

OIL!

[han]

Or liberals want peace, love and understanding

conservatives want money, money and war and more money.

Think you nailed it, why do you say you don't understand it?

[geller]

conservatives want money, money and war and more money.

and oil.

[hrothgar]

Or liberals want peace, love and understanding

conservatives want money, money and war and more money.

Think you nailed it, why do you say you don't understand it?

I'd frame it very differently:

 

From what I can tell, Conservatives seem to be (predominantly) defined by a bunch of severe hangups revolving around sex, religion, and race.

 

The folks who are manipulating the conservatives are chasing after money, money, money...

[luke warm]

The folks who are manipulating the conservatives are chasing after money, money, money...

and the folks manipulating the liberals aren't?

[helene_t]

The folks who are manipulating the conservatives are chasing after money, money, money...

and the folks manipulating the liberals aren't?

There was a survey recently among Dutch companies that are active in the US and sponsor American politics. The general picture was that they feed whomever is (or will be) in a better position to repay their services, and that they were quite frank about that. Some feed reps and dems simoultaneously. Some fed reps until the latest midterms and then suddenly turned democrats.

 

Maybe the most well-known recent example of corruption in US politics [deleted, maybe it's better not to accuse named persons for crime on this forum].

 

But the original question was about Scandinavia, and there (and in Europe generally) things are different. For a number of reasons, politicians are barely in positions to influence the government's relations with individual companies, so it doesn't make much economical sense to feed political parties. Color me naive but I think that if a Danish CEO generously donates some of his shareholders' money to a political party, it is because of sympaty or (maybe more likely) a stake in the party's general agenda such as better relations with Iran (if the company exports feta cheese) or simply lower corporate taxes, but not likely to be a case of corruption. (Of course as soon as a politician discovers that certain policies lead to more sponsor money he has de facto become corrupt, but the risk is lower than it is in the US because he can only influence general policies affecting a whole trade, not usually individual companies).

 

The way to improve relations with European governments is to feed bureacrats rather than politicians. Danish bureacrats are generally known to be difficult to influence (according to Transparancy International, only New Zealand and maybe Norway are less corrupt) but there are exceptions - it used to be easy to buy construction contracts with the Copenhagen townhall, not sure if it's still the case or if they have cleaned it up.

Edited October 21, 2007 by helene_t

[G_R__E_G]

The USBF has published their decision.

 

USBF Minutes

[Walddk]

" ... violation of Section IV.A.10 of the USBF Grievance, Appeals and Disciplinary Procedures (“Actions unbecoming a member...)".

 

What exactly did they violate? I guess you need to be a USBF member to log in and know because it seems impossible for non-members to get to the rules. Maybe I missed something on the USBF web site?

 

Roland

[G_R__E_G]

Here is the link to the document they are referring to.

 

Grievances

[jonottawa]

I'm saddened and disgusted but not surprised by this decision.

 

So much for letting the whole thing blow over.

[cherdano]

:) :( :( :(

[jdonn]

Nope not surprising at all, this was very expected. What can you do.

[Foxx]

BULLSHIT.

 

Total, complete, utter, tight-arsed, and self-serving BULLSHIT.

[matmat]

odds on this ending up in the courts?