"We didn't vote for Bush"

[pclayton]

Seems like a good start to me. I expect more will be forthcoming.

[fred]

Agree - so far the USBF BOD is handling this well (no surprise to me given who is on the Board).

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[Deanrover]

Can someone provide some cliff notes? This thread is very long and my time is very short!

 

Thanks,

 

D

[mike777]

Here is a copy of an email I just got.

 

"Follow the Money

 

Well this reporter has dug a little deeper into the matter. I just interviewed a Deep Throat informer and can give you the real scoop.

 

The incident was just as it appears in the photos, not overly pre-meditated. The words were scribbled on the back of a menu at the dinner. The winners were quite giddy from the dual euphoria of Winning the Venice Cup and imbibing an ample supply of intoxicants at the victory dinner. They clearly were not thinking about how ineffective this political statement would be in this particular forum, and indeed how members of the "other side" could use this incident to create a backlash against not only them, but future generations of Americans wishing to compete in the international arena.

 

Currently the ACBL funds our international teams through a series of events, most notably the International Fund Game that is held at the beginning of National Bridge Tournaments. There apparently already is a movement among some of our ACBL Board of Directors to make serious cuts in this funding. They do not see the benefit of the ACBL subsidizing our representatives in World competition. It is feared by those who do see the benefit, that some will use the China Venice Idiot (wow, my Word editor automatically changes b-u-s-h to i-d-i-o-t, does yours?) Bashing Incident as an EXCUSE to kill the funding for our teams. One such director is quoted as declaring that if any American says anything against our country (and he obviously believes this was an anti-American statement) on foreign soil is grounds for Treason.

 

So that, my friends, is really what's at stake. Hopefully, an expensive lawyer and really good apologies will spare them from the firing squad. The real danger is the backlash that causes others to needlessly suffer. Financially supporting our International Team is good for American Bridge. If the funding is withdrawn, only the super rich will be able to afford to go. Not cool at all.

 

Right now, the monkey is on the back of one Jan Martel, president (and a volunteer I need to stress) of the United States Bridge Federation, who now must pull together an apology to send the International Hosts and WBF. Obviously, each of the members of the team also needs to make the best sincerest apology they can muster. Most of the team members do realize the seriousness of the situation, that there are greater things at stake, and should hopefully co-operate.

 

As for the 16 minute tardy player on the USA team, what happened was a Temporary Power Outage, which somehow caused an alarm clock to falsely convince the player that it was actually about 40 minutes or so earlier than it actually was. The team was penalized 11 IMPS…and they nearly lost the event on the last board. China (the opponent) had a chance to beat a 3NTX contract 1100, but the play would cost letting the hand make if it was wrong, so the defender (not knowing the exact state of the match) chose instead to guarantee beating the contract and took 200 instead……getting 1100 on the board combined with the 11 IMP penalty would have swung the final outcome! "

[kenrexford]

For what it is worth:

 

According to the USBF Bylaws, "The purposes of this corporation are charitable in nature and are to advance the interests of the United States in international bridge competition, including the selection and support of United States bridge teams and players in international and Olympic bridge competition."

 

The purpose of the USBF, of which I am a member, is not to advance the interests of specific people in international bridge competition. It is to advance the interests of the United States. Thus, when someone is selected by the USBF and supported in a bridge competition, they are supposedly furthering the interests of the United States. Thus, they are representing those of us who are citizens.

 

In furtherance of these purposes, the USBF is supposed to support "United States participation in *** world championships." Thus, when a team of ladies are playing, under the support of the USBF, they are literally surrogates for the United States participating, per the bylaws. Again, they do represent us.

 

Further, an active member of the USBF becomes, per the bylaws, qualified to "represent the United States in international competition."

 

So, again, these ladies were representing us, not themselves.

 

That should end part of the debate.

[mrdct]

The whole ACBL/USBF situation really appears quite sub-optimal for the organisation of the game in the United States.

 

In most (if not all) other Zones in the WBF, the Zonal body tends to have their activities confined to organising competitions amongst the member of that Zone and the individual national bridge organisations look after both the grass-roots bridge players and international selection for that country. In North America it seems to be the other way around.

 

I guess it would be quite difficult to unravel such a structure and it could even lead to a potentially worse situation of the so-called elite bridge players all belonging to one organisation and the grass-roots players belonging to another.

 

Of course the existence of the American Bridge Association which has its origins in the period when the ACBL was "whites only" further complicates matters.

[mrdct]

As for the 16 minute tardy player on the USA team, what happened was a Temporary Power Outage, which somehow caused an alarm clock to falsely convince the player that it was actually about 40 minutes or so earlier than it actually was.

No sympathy from me.

 

If I was going to take a nap between segments of a semi-final of a world championship I would have at least three power-independent alarm clocks set plus a wake-up call booked with main reception.

 

Perhaps some team rules around being in the playing area at least 15 minutes before the scheduled start time might have helped as when the player was identified as missing with 10 minutes before session time, the npc could have got on the phone to her.

[jocdelevat]

I supose after this incident WBF or the bridge organization for each country will require a special comitee to take actions against players who doesn't respect the new law " no signs are apropriate" . Im sure some posters here who was making fun of creating a Committee will be happy to hear.

[cherdano]

As for the 16 minute tardy player on the USA team, what happened was a Temporary Power Outage, which somehow caused an alarm clock to falsely convince the player that it was actually about 40 minutes or so earlier than it actually was.

No sympathy from me.

Well, I wouldn't have expected sympathy from you. Ever. No matter who made a mistake and what was the mistake.

If I was going to take a nap between segments of a semi-final of a world championship I would have at least three power-independent alarm clocks set plus a wake-up call booked with main reception.

Yeah, right, everybody would do that.

[Walddk]

I also think Dave (mrdct) exaggerates. Perhaps a simpler approach would be to let one of your team-mates, your captain or your coach give you a wake-up call just in case.

 

This was the first segment of the day, so a qualified guess is that the player simply overslept, probably because she was still jet-lagged and fell asleep very late.

 

Roland

[helene_t]

I supose after this incident WBF or the bridge organization for each country will require a special comitee to take actions against players who doesn't respect the new law " no signs are apropriate" . Im sure some posters here who was making fun of creating a Committee will be happy to hear.

Assuming that the USBF board of directors will prove unable to deal with this incident to the satisfaction of the bridge community (the vast majority of which will never hear about the incident anyway). Judging from the comments from others I see no reason to make that assumption.

 

But in case the WBF is short of meeting its obligation with regards to the number of new committees, I nominate Dave for the alarm-clock-power-backup-approval committee.

[rona_]

As for the 16 minute tardy player on the USA team, what happened was a Temporary Power Outage, which somehow caused an alarm clock to falsely convince the player that it was actually about 40 minutes or so earlier than it actually was.

No sympathy from me.

 

If I was going to take a nap between segments of a semi-final of a world championship I would have at least three power-independent alarm clocks set plus a wake-up call booked with main reception.

 

Perhaps some team rules around being in the playing area at least 15 minutes before the scheduled start time might have helped as when the player was identified as missing with 10 minutes before session time, the npc could have got on the phone to her.

Just to make perfectly sure you wake up on time, Don't leave home without it

 

 

:)

[helene_t]

It reminds me of a classmate of mine who solved the same problem by connecting his alarm clock to a string-pull device that pulled off his quilt so that he got cold and had to get up.

[Walddk]

Even better is to attach the string to a bucket full of water. Ice cold preferably :) The advantage is that when you're late, you've had your shower already :P

 

Roland

[mrdct]

I also think Dave (mrdct) exaggerates.

OK. Fair call - but with 100% truthfulness when I need to wake up for something important I do set the alarm on both my phone and my bedside alarm clock just in case one of them doesn't work.

 

In the unlikely event that I ever make it to the semi-final of a World Championship, I promise on my mother's grave that I will have at least three power-independent alarm clocks set before each session!

[jikl]

Trust me on this, I knew Dave from my youth days. He is telling the truth, he would.

 

Sean

[hrothgar]

There apparently already is a movement among some of our ACBL Board of Directors to make serious cuts in this funding.  They do not see the benefit of the ACBL subsidizing our representatives in World competition.  It is feared by those who do see the benefit, that some will use the China Venice Idiot (wow, my Word editor automatically changes b-u-s-h to i-d-i-o-t, does yours?) Bashing Incident as an EXCUSE to kill the funding for our teams.  One such director is quoted as declaring that if any American says anything against our country (and he obviously believes this was an anti-American statement) on foreign soil is grounds for Treason.

Am I suposed to be surprised that the ACBL BoD includes a bunch of idiots? That's been patently obvious for generations.

 

Its a pretty well known fact that a vocal minority within the ACBL BoD is looking for any excuse to several all ties between the ACBL and the WBF. I don't have any factual information about what motivates these individuals. My assumption is that they are a bunch of "Red State" idiots who have somehow confused the World Bridge Federation with the New World Order. (Perhaps all those funds for Junior Camp are being siphoned away for Black Helicopters and UN sanctioned "Re-Education" camps...) I take comfort in the fact that idiots like this one are over-reacting in such a dramatic fashion.

 

In short: I really don't care what the extremists think. However, if anyone can point out to any changes at the margin, that might be a bit more interesting.

 

I still have high hopes that this whole incident can be swept under the carpet. I really don't think that airing all of the dirty linen serves anyone other than the whack jobs and the misogynists... (Its sad that some people feel the need to stoke up the fire and try to turn a minor incident into a cause)

 

One thing that this does expose is some of the organizational problems facing bridge in the United States.

 

1. From an organization perspective, members of the ACBL BoD shouldn't have any say in the behaviour of a USBF team. In theory, the ACBL and the USBF should be separate and distinct entities and shouldn't be meddling in one another's affairs. In practice, the whole relationship between the two groups seems quite byzantine. For example, I don't know the extent to which International Funds games in the ACBL are used to subsidize USBF teams. Furthermore, does any of this money get remitted to the Canandians? (Life might get a lot easier if the Canadians did secede from the ACBL...)

 

2. Associated with this, I don't think that the average ACBL member actually feels any empathy for members of the US international teams. My impression is that players flock to International Fund games, Charity events, and the like because of the lure of extra special masterpoints. (I don't think any of them give a rat's ass for the actual cause being sponsored)

[Elianna]

My impression is that players folk to International Fund games, Charity events, and the like because of the lure of extra special masterpoints. (I don't think any of them give a rat's ass for the actual cause being sponsored)

In my local clubs, they avoid them, because of the extra cost.

[Walddk]

There apparently already is a movement among some of our ACBL Board of Directors to make serious cuts in this funding.  They do not see the benefit of the ACBL subsidizing our representatives in World competition.  It is feared by those who do see the benefit, that some will use the China Venice Idiot (wow, my Word editor automatically changes b-u-s-h to i-d-i-o-t, does yours?) Bashing Incident as an EXCUSE to kill the funding for our teams.  One such director is quoted as declaring that if any American says anything against our country (and he obviously believes this was an anti-American statement) on foreign soil is grounds for Treason.

Am I suposed to be surprised that the ACBL BoD includes a bunch of idiots? That's been patently obvious for generations.

 

Its a pretty well known fact that a vocal minority within the ACBL BoD is looking for any excuse to several all ties between the ACBL and the WBF. I don't have any factual information about what motivates these individuals. My assumption is that they are a bunch of "Red State" idiots who have somehow confused the World Bridge Federation with the New World Order. (Perhaps all those funds for Junior Camp are being siphoned away for Black Helicopters and UN sanctioned "Re-Education" camps...) I take comfort in the fact that idiots like this one are over-reacting in such a dramatic fashion.

 

In short: I really don't care what the extremists think. However, if anyone can point out to any changes at the margin, that might be a bit more interesting.

 

I still have high hopes that this whole incident can be swept under the carpet. I really don't think that airing all of the dirty linen serves anyone other than the whack jobs and the misogynists... (Its sad that some people feel the need to stoke up the fire and try to turn a minor incident into a cause)

 

One thing that this does expose is some of the organizational problems facing bridge in the United States.

 

1. From an organization perspective, members of the ACBL BoD shouldn't have any say in the behaviour of a USBF team. In theory, the ACBL and the USBF should be separate and distinct entities and shouldn't be meddling in one another's affairs. In practice, the whole relationship between the two groups seems quite byzantine. For example, I don't know the extent to which International Funds games in the ACBL are used to subsidize USBF teams. Furthermore, does any of this money get remitted to the Canandians? (Life might get a lot easier if the Canadians did secede from the ACBL...)

 

2. Associated with this, I don't think that the average ACBL member actually feels any empathy for members of the US international teams. My impression is that players folk to International Fund games, Charity events, and the like because of the lure of extra special masterpoints. (I don't think any of them give a rat's ass for the actual cause being sponsored)

I think you should reread your post and edit, Richard. If I understand your intentions correctly, you sometimes use ACBL when you mean USBF. This decision (letter of regret) was made by the USBF Board of Directors.

 

Until now I can't see that the ACBL has been involved at all.

 

Speaking of polarisation. What a difference between Richard's "idiots" and Fred's "... so far the USBF BOD is handling this well (no surprise to me given who is on the Board)".

 

In my view it's a bit harsh to call people "idiots" just because you disagree with a decision.

 

Roland

[helene_t]

Ahem .... Mike777 talked about ACBL. Richard quoted Mike's post.

[Walddk]

Ahem .... Mike777 talked about ACBL. Richard quoted Mike's post.

Yes, 8 lines. The rest is Richard's and he is the one who mix up ACBL and USBF and call the BOD "a bunch of idiots".

 

Roland

[fred]

In short:  I really don't care what the extremists think.

That's a strange thing for someone who has been known to have extreme views to say :P

 

Maybe the ACBL BOD doesn't care what you think either, but I suspect that some of them would not appreciate being referred to as "idiots" in a public forum, especially by someone who admits that he does not know the motivations behind some of the behavior that he considers to be idiotic.

 

Of course it is your right to decide what you think it is idiotic and who you think is an idiot. I am sure if we were having a private discussion over a beer I would agree with you in many cases.

 

But when a post like yours appears I get complaints and sometimes I get blamed (not fair for sure but true). Then I have to decide whether or not I should engage in "censorship" or do nothing. You have seen the outcry whenever we think we have to "censor" anything on Forums. Perhaps you do not know that when we refuse to censor we piss people off as well. It is yet another no-win situation.

 

It is even worse when some of the people in question have the ability to hurt BBO if they choose to do so.

 

So please be a little more careful. It would have certainly been possible for you to make your point without using the word "idiot" (at least 3 times).

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[hrothgar]

Ahem .... Mike777 talked about ACBL. Richard quoted Mike's post.

Yes, 8 lines. The rest is Richard's and he is the one who mix up ACBL and USBF and call the BOD "a bunch of idiots".

 

Roland

Roland, I didn't mix anything up.

 

Mike made a post indicating that elements of the ACBL BoD might use this incident to pull funding from International events like:

 

The World Junior Team Championships

USBF Teams participating in the Bermuda Bowl

Etc...

 

I responded with a specific post stating my feeling about (elements of) the ACBL BoD. I also questioned an organizational structure in which elements of the ACBL BoD felt obliged to meddle in USBF affairs.

 

I am well aware of the distinction between the ACBL and the USBF. Perhaps you need to learn how to read more carefully. (Alternatively, perhaps you might like to indicate a specific phrase or clause in which you think that I have confused the ACBL with the USBF or vice versa)

[Walddk]

I am well aware of the distinction between the ACBL and the USBF. Perhaps you need to learn how to read more carefully. (Alternatively, perhaps you might like to indicate a specific phrase or clause in which you think that I have confused the ACBL with the USBF or vice versa)

OK, so I misunderstood your post; sorry about that. I still find it inappropriate to call board members "idiots". You are entitled to disagree with everything they do and don't do, but you can surely find words that are not insulting.

 

Heaven knows that you and I have different views and disagree on a regular basis, but we don't call each other idiots. You disagree with virtually every decision the ACBL makes, but that doesn't make them idiots.

 

Roland

[ralph23]

There apparently already is a movement among some of our ACBL Board of Directors to make serious cuts in this funding.  They do not see the benefit of the ACBL subsidizing our representatives in World competition.  It is feared by those who do see the benefit, that some will use the China Venice Idiot (wow, my Word editor automatically changes b-u-s-h to i-d-i-o-t, does yours?) Bashing Incident as an EXCUSE to kill the funding for our teams.  One such director is quoted as declaring that if any American says anything against our country (and he obviously believes this was an anti-American statement) on foreign soil is grounds for Treason.

Am I suposed to be surprised that the ACBL BoD includes a bunch of idiots? That's been patently obvious for generations.

Wow....Is it like generational sin or something? The Board changes over time, doesn't it?