the Question.

[gwnn]

favorable imps pd deals and passes (denying 10+ unbal/12+bal), RHO opens 1♠ and you look at:

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sxhqj9xxdjxxcakj9]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

how close is your choice?

[pclayton]

Double.

 

No 2nd choice.

[ArtK78]

2♥. No second choice.

 

Seriously, though, the hand is good enough to act, despite the fact that partner is severly limited from his failure to open. And the only realistic chance of game is in hearts, not clubs or diamonds.

 

At matchpoints, where the object is to go plus - any plus - double has more appeal. But at IMPs, where game is the primary objective, it makes more sense to concentrate on hearts when hearts is your long suit.

[mr1303]

If I could bid at the 1 level, I'd bid 1H, but over 1S I feel my heart suit isn't good enough to bid 2H. With good support for all unbid suits I'm going to double.

[bid_em_up]

Double. No second choice.

 

At matchpoints, where hearts outscore the minors it makes more sense to bid 2H. But I would still double.

 

At IMP's where the objective is to find your likely plus score and best fit (whether it is game or not), double gives you the maximum available options to be able to do so.

[ArtK78]

There seems to be a small difference of opinion as to the objects of the game at various forms of scoring. B)

[pclayton]

At matchpoints, where the object is to go plus - any plus - double has more appeal.

You have this backward.

 

The goal of IMPs in a partscore situation is to get some plus score. There's no difference between +100 and +110, but there's a relatively larger difference between -50 and +110.

 

At MPs, we are simply looking for the 'best' score, whether that be +110, +200 or -50.

[awm]

Part of this depends on how likely game happens to be. Obviously at IMPs you need to bid your games.

 

With partner already a passed hand, we don't have a lot of points (max 23). While I'm sure it's possible to construct hands where we have game on 23 high opposite a balanced partner or 21 high opposite an unbalanced partner, my bet would be that the vast majority of these hands involve a 9+ card fit somewhere. With only eight card fits it will be harder to produce a game. Curiously, the most likely eight card fit to produce game is probably clubs (since 4-4 can play a lot better than 5-3).

 

This makes doubling a lot more appealing, since any nine-card heart fit will be revealed (when partner bids hearts). If we "miss" a heart fit by doubling instead of overcalling, it's probably only an eight-card fit, in which case we didn't have game anyway and playing in a minor suit should be fine. Double is certainly the more flexible option, and should improve our chances of going plus on the board.

[vang]

for me i was close (dbl/2h) but in the end i choose dbl. i hope 2H doubled will go for -1100 ;-)

[ArtK78]

An interesting discussion, in which I appear to be in the minority (what a shock!).

 

At IMPs, I do not rule out the possibility of bidding a game in hearts on this hand, despite partner being a passed hand. My hand is very good opposite a fit. A game in a minor suit is too unlikely to consider seriously opposite a passed hand.

 

At matchpoints, I want to cater to the most likely possibilities, not necessarily the most lucrative possibilities. So, I want to offer partner the chance to play in any of my three suits. Yes, hearts may scores more, if there is a fit, but I want to leave open the chance to play in clubs or diamonds if there is no heart fit (or if the heart fit is minimal). I will double to leave open the chance of playing in a minor suit fit rather than commit our side to playing in hearts. And doubling does not rule out playing in hearts if partner has 4.

 

I concede that this is a close call at either form of scoring.

 

A question to the panel. If you choose to double at IMPs and partner bids hearts, do you take another call? If so, what?

[bid_em_up]

Art,

 

Part of the reason for this "logic" (or "illogic" from your point of view) is that bidding 2H takes away 4 available bids that MIGHT have been the correct place to play.

 

1S x'd, 1N, 2C, 2D all might be the right place to play. You do not know if any of these are the right place or not, and by bidding 2H, you just made a unilateral statement of 2H implying that you think its the right place to play (as opposed to any of the other four). Surely, you can see that it cannot be correct to make this assumption. It is my opinion that this holds true at any form of scoring and even more so at IMP's than at matchpoints, but it is simply my opinion. You can bid 2H at MP and suffer the consequences of it being just 1 board and still be ok. Bidding 2H at IMP's could end up being disastrous and losing the entire match.

 

If partner cannot jump to 3x over the double, it is unlikely you have any game possible. If he jumps to 3 of a minor, you are still free to bid 3H as 4m is likely safe (or even 5m). If he jumps to 3H, you bid 4.

 

So if you double, and partner bids 2H, you will pass, you do not have any extras. If he bids 2m, you will pass. He has less than 8/9 hcp (from the lack of the jump) so your objective is now to go plus. Any plus. Not necessarily the highest scoring one.

 

Yes, it is possible to miss a game this way, however, in those rare cases, it will be a very thin game that will be going down more often than it makes. You will lose more by bidding 2H directly (and either going down in it or getting too high later) than you will by making your most flexible call and finding your best fit, while at the same time working with partner to evaluate your sides total assets.

 

When it is right to get to 4H, partner will have responded 3H over the double (or at least 3m) and you will get there anyway. But when hearts is the wrong strain, and you bid 2H, you make it practically impossible to find the right strain and level.

[P_Marlowe]

X, and I would not even think twice.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Fluffy]

What UBE said.

 

Maybe someone edited the hand before I posted, but now I am seeing only 5 hearts, who was the joker who edited it?

[jdonn]

2♥ (woot Art). However, double IS a second choice. Does this make me a minority of one in thinking neither is too terrible? I simply think the suit is just good enough to risk our one and only shot of finding a 5-3 heart fit.

[jdeegan]

:) I voted for double, but 2♥ is not wrong, imo. The double is safer - a big issue at IMPs (sorry ArtK78). I'm not sure I want to insist on a heart lead. A heart game based on a 5-3 fit is somewhat remote opposite a passed partner, and my having a stiff spade. If pard shows 4 or 5 hearts opposite my double, my hand becomes big, and I will know it. If partner raises 2♥ to 3♥, I won't know how high to go.

[the hog]

This is possibly the easiest question ever asked on these forums. Double. I'm surprised this is not unanimous. Pass and 2H are not options.

[han]

I double. Pass is clearly out and 2H seems too risky given that game is fairly unlikely.

[zasanya]

favorable imps pd deals and passes (denying 10+ unbal/12+bal), RHO opens 1♠ and you look at:

 

Dealer: North Vul: N/S Scoring: IMP

♠ x ♥ QJ9xx ♦ Jxx ♣ AKJ9

 

how close is your choice?

Do not understand the opening gambit 'favourable imps'.It seems to me N is dealer .N/S vul ; so vulnerability is unfavourable.P has denied 10 + unbal 12 +bal so game is unlikely.I am passing at this vul ; with any other vul I will double.

If LHO passes P will balance with appropriate hand.If LHO bids 2 ♠ (presumably weak) I will reopen with a double.In all other situations I will be better off passing.

[Free]

Dbl, but I consider pass as an alternative...

[77sj]

I would like to compete here and use mod. ghestem with a two suiter and opening values.My partner has a passed hand and i just want to show values of my hand for defence and if we find a fit in hearts this would be nice.Pass or DBL or 2♥ doesnt describe well my hand in my opinion.So 2♠ is my choise and therefor "Whatever" in the poll.

[brianshark]

My preference is 2♥. I like to bid my 5 card majors. Dbl second.

[whereagles]

I prefer dbl, but would definitely bid 2♥ in some circumstances.

[skjaeran]

2♥. 2nd choice pass, 3rd choice double.

[gwnn]

favorable imps pd deals and passes (denying 10+ unbal/12+bal), RHO opens 1♠ and you look at:

 

<!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> North </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> N/S </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> IMP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </span> </th> <td> x </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td> QJ9xx </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td> Jxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td> AKJ9 </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end -->

 

how close is your choice?

Do not understand the opening gambit 'favourable imps'.It seems to me N is dealer .N/S vul ; so vulnerability is unfavourable.P has denied 10 + unbal 12 +bal so game is unlikely.I am passing at this vul ; with any other vul I will double.

If LHO passes P will balance with appropriate hand.If LHO bids 2 ♠ (presumably weak) I will reopen with a double.In all other situations I will be better off passing.

the hand diagram is wrong. it was favorable imps.