Board 5 Ben&Adam style

[jillybean]

[hv=d=e&v=e&n=sa3hj8432d985ca53&s=shakq9dkj7cqjt762]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     2♠    3♣

 3♥    Dbl   Pass  Pass

 3♠    Pass  Pass  4♠

 Pass  5♣    Pass  5♥

 Pass  5♠    Pass  6♥

 Pass  Pass  Pass  

 

EW have been rotated

 

Please explain the auction ?

[awm]

2♠ = weak two bid

3♣ = natural, prefer this over X with 6♣, spade void, little defense

3♥ = psych, try to prevent N/S from finding hearts

X = penalty of hearts, very nice bid by Ben BTW :P

3♠ = perhaps an underbid, trying to keep from pushing N/S to slam?

4♠ = strong hand (4♥ here presumably is natural but not very forward-going)

5♣ = showing the club fit, not clear yet where we are going

5♥ = natural, slam try in heart

5♠ = cuebid, cooperating

6♥ = to play

[jdonn]

3♣ instead of X is absolutely unthinkable IMO with AKQx of hearts and perfectly adequate support for diamonds. But overall it was a good auction.

[han]

Agree, 3C seems really wrong. I like the rest of the auction.

[Guest Jlall]

This shows why bids like 3H are not good bids.

[jillybean]

This shows why bids like 3H are not good bids.

Please elaborate, I doubt I would have found the ♥slam after 3♥.

I was thinking 5♥ was a cue in support of ♣;s.

[pclayton]

This shows why bids like 3H are not good bids.

I wouldn't condemn 3♥ that harshly but it isn't my style either.

 

If NS only had a 4-4 fit, 3♥ would have worked very well. And if North had six hearts (and South two or three), I doubt the heart fit would be found either.

[Guest Jlall]

This shows why bids like 3H are not good bids.

Please elaborate, I doubt I would have found the ♥slam after 3♥.

I was thinking 5♥ was a cue in support of ♣;s.

Yes against less experienced players these silly psyches work well. However, bidding 4S against less experienced players work well too, you will probably just play 4S X.

 

It is better to just take up as much room as possible as early as possible, and not allow them all this extra room.

[Guest Jlall]

If NS only had a 4-4 fit, 3♥ would have worked very well. And if North had six hearts (and South two or three), I doubt the heart fit would be found either.

They are much more likely to find a 4-4 heart fit after 3H than after 4S.

[pclayton]

If NS only had a 4-4 fit, 3♥ would have worked very well. And if North had six hearts (and South two or three), I doubt the heart fit would be found either.

They are much more likely to find a 4-4 heart fit after 3H than after 4S.

Its difficult over either. Responder would have a responsive double available over 4♠.

 

As you said earlier - the responder has an auto double of 4♠ and opener has an auto pull.

[cherdano]

This shows why bids like 3H are not good bids.

I wouldn't condemn 3♥ that harshly but it isn't my style either.

 

If NS only had a 4-4 fit, 3♥ would have worked very well. And if North had six hearts (and South two or three), I doubt the heart fit would be found either.

If North has 6 hearts, then he just bids 4♥ over 3♥, which is of course natural. What hand could he have that can bid 5♥ over 4♠ but not 4♥ over 3♥? I disagree about the 4-4 fit, too. If you bid 4♠ they will often pass out 4SX with a double fit.

 

I really don't see anything that 3♥ can do against decent opponents that 4♠ cant' do, I don't think this is even close.

[han]

Do you think anybody will listen to what you think after this individual Arend?

[jillybean]

Ok I'll ask the silly question..why is 5♥ natural and not a cue on your way to 7♣?

[Mbodell]

Ok I'll ask the silly question..why is 5♥ natural and not a cue on your way to 7♣?

No one's agreed to clubs so I think it would be odd to lock onto clubs. The double then pass of the 3♥ exposed the psych and the 4♠ seems like a cue, void/control, strong hand with an undetermined strain (but leaning to hearts) to me. 5♥ could very well be a cue on the way to something. But even if the 5♥ is a cues North knows South has a void in spades, the A of hearts, and so the 5♠ bid is fine. Once South bids 6♥ it has to be to play since it skips to many levels and South didn't bid 5♦ so this bid can't be cue for ♣.

[jillybean]

The double then pass of the 3♥ exposed the psych

Bingo, the light has come on :rolleyes:

 

thanks!

[pclayton]

This shows why bids like 3H are not good bids.

I wouldn't condemn 3♥ that harshly but it isn't my style either.

 

If NS only had a 4-4 fit, 3♥ would have worked very well. And if North had six hearts (and South two or three), I doubt the heart fit would be found either.

If North has 6 hearts, then he just bids 4♥ over 3♥, which is of course natural. What hand could he have that can bid 5♥ over 4♠ but not 4♥ over 3♥? I disagree about the 4-4 fit, too. If you bid 4♠ they will often pass out 4SX with a double fit.

 

I really don't see anything that 3♥ can do against decent opponents that 4♠ cant' do, I don't think this is even close.

I'm looking at 2 outside aces and QT-6th of hearts (for example). Is it really so obvious to bid 4♥? Is it so obvious that it exposes a psyche?

 

I'm dealt: ♠xx ♥Axx ♦AQxx ♣Axxx. I hear (2♠) - 3♣ - (3♥). If anyone tells me that I have to bid 3♠, instead of 4♥ with this collection, I might believe them. If anyone tells me that 4♥ doesn't cross their mind, but they can't make the call because it 'obviously' exposes the psyche, I don't believe them.

[cherdano]

Ok I'll ask the silly question..why is 5♥ natural and not a cue on your way to 7♣?

You can just think of the auction (2S) 3C (3H) X as roughly the same as (2) 3C (P) 3H (except that the first one is a bit more flexible).

 

In fact, with Adam's hand i would have jumped to 4S over (3H) X (P), showing a splinter for hearts.

[jdonn]

I'm looking at 2 outside aces and QT-6th of hearts (for example). Is it really so obvious to bid 4♥?

Yes

Is it so obvious that it exposes a psyche?

Yes

[cherdano]

This shows why bids like 3H are not good bids.

I wouldn't condemn 3♥ that harshly but it isn't my style either.

 

If NS only had a 4-4 fit, 3♥ would have worked very well. And if North had six hearts (and South two or three), I doubt the heart fit would be found either.

If North has 6 hearts, then he just bids 4♥ over 3♥, which is of course natural. What hand could he have that can bid 5♥ over 4♠ but not 4♥ over 3♥? I disagree about the 4-4 fit, too. If you bid 4♠ they will often pass out 4SX with a double fit.

 

I really don't see anything that 3♥ can do against decent opponents that 4♠ cant' do, I don't think this is even close.

I'm looking at 2 outside aces and QT-6th of hearts (for example). Is it really so obvious to bid 4♥? Is it so obvious that it exposes a psyche?

 

I'm dealt: ♠xx ♥Axx ♦AQxx ♣Axxx. I hear (2♠) - 3♣ - (3♥). If anyone tells me that I have to bid 3♠, instead of 4♥ with this collection, I might believe them. If anyone tells me that 4♥ doesn't cross their mind, but they can't make the call because it 'obviously' exposes the psyche, I don't believe them.

Phil, if you have had this auction once or twice and discussed it, then it is 100% clear that bidding preemptor's suit is a cue and bidding responder's suit is natural. 4♥ with that hand wouldn't cross my mind, sorry.