Balanced crap

[ArcLight]

IMPS Favorable

Pard opens 1♦, RHO passes, whats your bid with:

 

♠ J 5

♥ Q J 5 3

♦ J T 7

♣ 9 8 5 2

 

 

Do you pass? Bid 1♥? Other (what?)

[Quantumcat]

I would pass ... if the opponents come in and pard is strong, he'll bid something else, now you are limited and pard won't do the wrong thing.

 

Edit: Actually I thought of something better, 1♠. Pard opened 1♦ and probably has a balanced hand. You have two spades. The opponents are likely to have a spade fit and unless they're clever, now won't find it. It's perfect: He'll respond a) 1NT or :) 2 of something which you are quite happy to pass since you'll a) not get a spade lead and :lol: have a fit, just hope he doesn't raise you to 4♠ :-/.

[hrothgar]

This is a miserable collection of crap, but its favorable...

Moreover, thoses 10s and 9s add up to something.

 

Mark me down for 1♥. If partner reverses into Spades, I can bid 2NT and then drop him into Diamonds.

[helene_t]

Pass. If I have to do something tactical, 1NT.

[Quantumcat]

Why do people insist on bidding with these hands? I understand with the five-five hand that was posted previously, even without any judgement, any book on bidding will tell you to add points. But this one? How will pard make any intelligent decisions if your responses can include this? What if partner puts you in game?

[matmat]

hmmm

pass for me

say i bid 1h (another reasonable response).

 

if p bids 1n showing a min balanced hand, that's not good...

if p now bids 1s, what am i doing? 1n? 2d?

if p raises hearts to the 2 level. ok. i don't expect to make and opps should have no trouble finding their fit anyway... that and p may have raised on 3. YUCK

if p jumps to 2n or 3h i'm still not happy.

pass is fine for me... had lho been a passed hand i might consider taking a different call.

[pclayton]

1♥

[cherdano]

Bid.

[pclayton]

Why do people insist on bidding with these hands? I understand with the five-five hand that was posted previously, even without any judgement, any book on bidding will tell you to add points. But this one? How will pard make any intelligent decisions if your responses can include this? What if partner puts you in game?

Because frequently one of these things will happen:

 

1. The vulnerable opponents are cold for 3N and you just froze out your LHO.

 

2. You just got pard off to the best lead against (whatever).

 

3. Declarer places extra cards in your hand and misplays a contract.

 

Against that, pard overbidding is a risk. We will frequently get to 2N (when the opponents have a partial) going down at 50 a trick, or pard will make a jump shift and we'll get to to a no-play game.

[mikeh]

I pass

 

I rarely pass 5 counts, and am not happy doing so here, but no A or K, plus playability in 1♦, and the huge risk of getting overboard make this a pass for me.

[pclayton]

I pass

 

I rarely pass 5 counts, and am not happy doing so here, but no A or K, plus playability in 1♦, and the huge risk of getting overboard make this a pass for me.

Mike, did you notice the vulnerability?

[mike777]

IMPS Favorable

Pard opens 1♦, RHO passes, whats your bid with:

 

♠ J 5

♥ Q J 5 3

♦ J T 7

♣ 9 8 5 2

 

 

Do you pass? Bid 1♥? Other (what?)

one♥

 

Give me zero hcp and I still find some bid 100% at this vul.

 

See previous Justin/Hamman forum post.

[Guest Jlall]

I would bid. If partner jumped to 4H I would expect to make it a significant percentage of the time.

[ArcLight]

Lets say the bidding goes:

1♦ p 1♥ 1♠

3♦ 3♠ ?

 

Would you bid?

I bid 4♦.

Was that wrong? How bad was it?

 

1♦ p 1♥ 1♠

3♦ 3♠ 4♦ 4♠

5♦

 

5♦ was down 1. Pard had his bid!

 

 

Due to a lucky lie, 4♠ makes. But no one got there. Most opps sold out to part scores, so we lost a few IMPs.

 

An expert told me I should not have bid 1♥, and that 4♦ was a slam try

[vuroth]

Lets say the bidding goes:

1♦ p 1♥ 1♠

3♦ 3♠ ?

 

Would you bid?

Why not pass? Should make the limited values clear.

[cherdano]

Why do people insist on bidding with these hands? I understand with the five-five hand that was posted previously, even without any judgement, any book on bidding will tell you to add points. But this one? How will pard make any intelligent decisions if your responses can include this? What if partner puts you in game?

So in the other hand (KJxxxx T9xxx - xx) it was clear to bid, the hand was just too strong to pass. Here it is clearly a style question, i.e. many experts would bid, many would pass.

 

The biggest win for bidding with a hand like this is that it might make it harder for the opponents to find their game or partscore when it is their hand. Additionally, if partner gets excited and jumps in hearts, we have good cards in his suits (QJT and JT), so we might well make.

[Quantumcat]

So it's like a safer psyche than 1♠ (if p jumps in hearts at least we have a fit). But slightly less advantages (opps unlikely to have a heart fit, and easy for them to bid the master suit, and they probably have a fit there).

 

But if you're going to choose between psyching 1♠ and 1♥, why would you choose hearts? 3 or 4♥ and 3 or 4♠ are both going down, both will be a bottom, (equal risks) yet 1♠ hurts the opps way more?

[hrothgar]

So it's like a safer psyche than 1♠ (if p jumps in hearts at least we have a fit). But slightly less advantages (opps unlikely to have a heart fit, and easy for them to bid the master suit, and they probably have a fit there).

Bidding on hands like this is (typically) a matter of partnership agreement. The noption of a psyche shouln't enter the covnersation.

[cherdano]

So it's like a safer psyche than 1♠ (if p jumps in hearts at least we have a fit). But slightly less advantages (opps unlikely to have a heart fit, and easy for them to bid the master suit, and they probably have a fit there).

 

But if you're going to choose between psyching 1♠ and 1♥, why would you choose hearts? 3 or 4♥ and 3 or 4♠ are both going down, both will be a bottom, (equal risks) yet 1♠ hurts the opps way more?

Aside from the fact that 1♥ is not a psych (my partner knows I will bid on a hand like this), it is not true at all that the risks are the same. If partner bids 3H or 4H over 1H, I have a chance to make (and even if I don't the opponents missed a fit and maybe it was there hand). If he bids 3S or 4S, I will definitely go down, possibly doubled by a trap passer, and even if they don't double it may have been our hand in 2N.

 

This hand really isn't so bad for play in hearts, that's what Justin and me tried to say above.

[Quantumcat]

Okay, fair enough. Just down to agreements on how low you'll bid I guess.

 

What if you had

 

♠5

♥Q7654

♦864

♣8653

 

Would you bid a spade (yess!) or a heart? Or pass :)

[Fluffy]

bid a pass :)

[hrothgar]

Okay, fair enough. Just down to agreements on how low you'll bid I guess.

 

What if you had

 

♠5

♥Q7654

♦864

♣8653

 

Would you bid a spade (yess!) or a heart?

This one is weak enough that I would pass. The 1♠ psyche doesn't appeal to me. (Too much chance that we buy a Spade raise from partner).

 

If I were to psyche a Spade, I'd prefer to do so in the context of a strong club, canape type system where

 

1. 1♦ tends to deny 4+ Spades

2. 1♦ tends to deny 15+ points

 

1♠ is a LOT more attractive if we have reason to suspect that the opponents have a Spade game. Even here, I'd prefer to have a bit more Diamond length.

[cherdano]

Okay, fair enough. Just down to agreements on how low you'll bid I guess.

 

What if you had

 

♠5

♥Q7654

♦864

♣8653

 

Would you bid a spade (yess!) or a heart? Or pass :)

I still bid one heart, and if partner bids 4♥ on AQx AJTx AKJx xx I still have a decent chance of making...

[Quantumcat]

So a response to an opening bid for your partnership shows 13 cards?

[mike777]

So a response to an opening bid for your partnership shows 13 cards?

At fav, yes and a suit, yes the suit maybe 5432.

Partner rebids, normal, nothing fancy.

 

All of this is not that common so not a big issue to worry about.