the age old question

[jillybean]

West North East South

 

 Pass  1♣    Pass  1♠

 Pass  2♣    Pass  2♦

 Pass  3♣    Pass  Pass

 Pass  

 

'SAYC' Has 2♦ promised another bid, is 2♦ nmf?

 

I understand this to be invitational, probe for nt with ♠/♦

 

My understanding of NMF is

1♣:1♠

1nt:2♦ is nmf

[helene_t]

I don think nmf is part of sayc. Where do you see that 2♦ promises another bid? Never heard that. 3♣ can't be forcing.

[TylerE]

I think this auction shows something like

 

 

Kxxx xxx AJxxx x

 

So, not only non-forcing, but an attempted sign-off.

[jillybean]

Correct 'SAYC' to 'SA' or bbo pickup standard ;)

 

I dont think 2♦ promises a rebid, my partner thought so

 

[hv=d=w&v=e&n=sq4ha2dq2caj98732&s=sakt97hqt4dj653c5]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 Pass  1♣    Pass  1♠

 Pass  2♣    Pass  2♦

 Pass  3♣    Pass  Pass

 Pass  

[cherdano]

North is limited by his 2♣ bid, so South can always pass a natural bid by North. 2♦ is forcing in SAYC.

(And to TylerE SAYC doesn't include Walsh, your example hand is a 1♦ bid.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

2D is NMF or 3rd suit or what ever.

3C shows a min. opener with 6 clubs,

and if the 2D bidder is min, why should

he bid on.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[jdonn]

2♦ does not promise another bid, it could just be an invitational hand so you can pass the 3♣ bid. On the actual hand you really should pass 2♣ IMO, but it's close and 2♦ is not so bad.

[whereagles]

In french standard, 2♦ is called "3rd suit forcing" and shows an inv+ hand (may be void in diams). It does not promise a rebid, though.

[1eyedjack]

Undiscussed with a pickup partner I would expect 2D to be ostensibly natural and forcing for one round. I would not expect responder to be canape (longer D than S). It is possible that he could have only 3 Diamonds, ie if concerned about Hearts for NT, but at his own risk (should opener support Diamonds). None of opener's bids are forcing.

 

To my mind, "nmf" applies after a 1NT rebid.

 

Still, I don't say I know much about SAYC.

[HeavyDluxe]

1eyedjack (Posted on Sep 28 2007, 06:43 PM)

Undiscussed with a pickup partner I would expect 2D to be ostensibly natural and forcing for one round. ...snip... None of opener's bids are forcing.

 

To my mind, "nmf" applies after a 1NT rebid.

 

As the quintessential, sucky, BBO pickup partner, I say: What he said.

[han]

I wouldn't play with sucky partners, they stick around for too long.

[ArtK78]

Some years ago in The Bridge World, the use of the other minor as artificial after 1m-1M-2m was written up in an article. Since Sonny Moyse referred to New Minor Forcing (1m-1M-1NT-2om) as that "petty little odious bid" or PLOB for short, the title of the article was Extended PLOB.

 

Basically, the article advocated that the new minor in these sequences:

 

1♣-1M (♥ or ♠)-2♣-2♦

 

and

 

1♦-1M (♥ or ♠)-2♦-3♣

 

should be artificial and forcing, leaving other bids, such as 1♣-1♠-2♣-2♥ as natural and NONFORCING.

 

Extended PLOB is not part of SAYC or simple SA, and should not be assumed in a casual or pickup partnership.