Who dropped the ball?

[P_Marlowe]

4D was forcing, hence pass was not an

option.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Finch]

Quick question for the peanut gallery about North's 2♠ call...  What would a double show in this same sequence?

I suppose I'd be laughed out of the room if I proposed hearts well stopped, penalty oriented?

Not by me.

[matmat]

i have a hijack question here --

what sort of hand would you expect the 2♥ overcaller to have considering they passed over the 1♣ opening?

[kenberg]

i have a hijack question here --

what sort of hand would you expect the 2♥ overcaller to have considering they passed over the 1♣ opening?

In this case the 2H is in response to his partner's double. So beyond having four hearts and modest values, I wouldn't expect much. I'm guessing (always presumptive) you missed seeing the double. If he were acting completely on his own I guess I would figure him for a suit something like KQJTx and not a great deal else. Too little strength to overcall (by some standards at least), too short for a WJO (again by some standards) but still, given the vul, reasonably safe since he can, with a little luck, play it for four tricks opposite zip or five tricks opposite an ace.

 

Getting back to the forcing/non-forcing 4D: I realize that in some circumstances raising a minor from 3 to 4 is forcing. Justin and others (South, for example) regard it as non-forcing here, Phil and others (North, for example) regard it as forcing. Can anyone suggest guidelines?

[matmat]

you missed seeing the double.

why yes... yes I did...

 

though I have seen auctions like that, without the double, perpetrated before...

[ArtK78]

For those of you who believe that 4♦ is forcing, please let me know at what point in the auction was a game force created?

 

I would agree that 4♦ would be forcing if a game force was created at some point in the auction before the 4♦ bid. However, if the auction was not game forcing before the 4♦ bid, then 4♦ should be invitational.

 

South has done absolutely nothing except open the bidding and support partner's diamonds. North made a 2♠ call over 2♦ which could only be construed as a game try (if he intends to bid game, that will become clear later in the auction). South rejected, and North tried once more with 4♦. North had many other choices available to him to try for game which could not be passed - 3♥, 3♠, 4♣. Then, if South returned to 4♦ North could carry on to game or stop in 4♦.

 

I see no reason why North should not be able to make a pure invitational to game 4♦ bid on this auction. And I see no advantage for having 4♦ as forcing to game. If North wants to make sure that game is reached, North has many bids available to him.

 

There is a school of thought that there are bids which are forcing to the 4 level, treating the 4 level as the equivalent of game. So, if you subscribe to that school of thought, if the prior auction was forcing to the four level the 4♦ bid would not be forcing, as the 4 level has been reached.

[P_Marlowe]

For those of you who believe that 4♦ is forcing, please let me know at what point in the auction was a game force created?

Live is to short to play, that one is able

to stop in 4D.

 

3D already said, that South is dead, and

Norths bids on, playing 4D as inv. is asking

the same question over and over again.

 

Friedrich II of Prussia said about Saxonia:

"Saxonia is like a flour sack, even if the sack is empty,

if you hit it, there will still be some flour left, which comes

out."

 

Playing 4D as inv. display a similar attitude.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[jdeegan]

B) Imo, the one really bad bid in this auction was South's final pass. My goodness, forcing (I don't see how) or not, your 2♦ bid could hardly be better, and partner has invited game.