neilkaz Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 I would never bid 4 club now. I have a control in Heart, so I bid it with 3 Heart. Th hand is now more exciting then watching paint dry. It is like watching your washing machine- when it is not running. You're correct...and this has been a very confusing thread first responding 1♥ and then switching to 1♠. .. neilkaz .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 The classic problem. Partner makes a call that might be a game try of some variety, might be a cuebid, might be asking for a stopper and for clarification of spade length if you do not use support doubles, might be any number of things. The agreements are not known, other than "essentially standard methods." Now, pick a bid. If I had to guess, I'd expect 3♦ to be a choice-of-games type of call, as no clarification seems to have been given that we doi,in fact, use support doubles. As I have a fourth spade, I'll pick spades, notwithstanding the diamond stopper. I don't think I'm good enough for a 4♥ splinter, but only barely. So, I'll mundanely bid 3♥. To splinter, I would ideally want ♠KQxx ♥x ♦xxx ♣AQJxx. In this situation, however, I might lighten up a bit, but the actual hand lightens up two bits. But, I just don't like guessing. I'd much rather have some clue as to what we are playing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 If we don't play support doubles, so that I could have had three spades only for the 2S bid, I am worth 4H over 3D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 I strongly object to 3♥, that should show some sort of length/strength there, not shortness. I think 4♥ is fine though. How much more could we have? A little more but not much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 Agree, 4♥ is fine now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 yeah 4♥ now. How many know of people who would rebid 1NT over 1♥ instead of 1♠? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 How many know of people who would rebid 1NT over 1♥ instead of 1♠? Fluffy! You must think that we Americans bid 1NT with everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 How many know of people who would rebid 1NT over 1♥ instead of 1♠? Fluffy! You must think that we Americans bid 1NT with everything. Nothign to do with americans, I know of 3 people (spannish) who would say: I stop every suit, so 1NT. And they have been playing for more than 20 years (not with great success) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 How many know of people who would rebid 1NT over 1♥ instead of 1♠? Fluffy! You must think that we Americans bid 1NT with everything. I know some South Americans I would expect to rebid 2♣ B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 Agree, 4♥ is fine now. indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted September 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 Heh. Well, I didn't expect to get this far afield. And I'm sorry that "instead of 1♥, partner responds 1♠" confused some people. I suppose I could have started another thread. B) Anyway, I was hoping for somewhat different answers. Here's the analysis from my source: "Partner is making a help suit game try in diamonds, or perhaps trying to get to 3NT. This isn't good news for spades because it suggests he has something like three low diamonds. If so, the defenders will start with two top diamonds and a diamond ruff. And 3NT isn't appealing with a singleton heart. I sign off in 3♠." I suppose this says something about the pair's agreements which differs from what most here play. :) Support doubles are on, so responder knows opener has four spades. So I guess my question now is "what's wrong with this analysis?" Oh, and there will be more to this auction. Keep in mind the title of the thread. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 You are wrong in that 3♦doesn't ask nor shwo anything about diamonds, and even if it did, it wouldn't be ♦xxx. At this point partner is almost marked with 5♠-4♥, Why didn't he use this suit as limit I don't know, probably he is looking for slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 That's a really weird treatment. I would have never guessed, even if I knew that 2♠ promised four, that 3♦ was an empathetic short-suit game try. (LOL) Your expert's analysis is good, though, if in fact you were playing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Good one Ken. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 How many know of people who would rebid 1NT over 1♥ instead of 1♠? Fluffy! You must think that we Americans bid 1NT with everything. You a dual citizen now Han? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Ha, thanks for noticing my joke Phil :). Though as bridge player I'm more American than Dutch I think, and what is more important, bridge or passport? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted September 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Heh. Okay. So far the bidding has gone (never mind what folks here want to bid :) ): 1♣-(P)-1♠-(2♦)-2♠-(P)-3-♦-(P)-3♠ Opponents are not bidding any more. Responder now bids 4♥. What's going on? How do you evaluate your hand now (you're opener, remember)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Ive had enough, 4♠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Let's see: 1♣ (natural)1♠ (natural) [2♦]2♠ (natural, promising 4-card support)3♦ (weird HSGT)3♠ (I cannot help you)4♥ (some sort of undefined slam try) Now what? I have no idea what partner has.I have no idea what we play.I have no idea what I'm supposed to look for in my hand. But, I do have a plan. I'll stare straight forward for about ten seconds. Then, I'll stand up, waver, and fall down across the table. I'll pretend to have passed out. When they "revive me," I'll talk about this happening to my grandfather and my father and pretend to panic. I'll leave the game, run to my car, grab my cell phone, call my buddy, pick him up, take off down the road, and hopefully catch at least the midnight game in the other tournament a few states over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 I agree with Ken! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 I get confused in long auctions like this. She's trying for slam and she hasn't bid blackwood yet. Who is this partner and why is she playing with me? I pass. No wait, undo undo, I bid 4♠! DIRECTOR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 I like Kens plan. But besides this, I bid 4 NT. Resoning: Pd asked me for cvalues/help in diamonds. I denyed them. After this he had slam interesst. So obviously he has short diamonds but forgot to bid 4 Diamond after my 2 Spade bid- or judged that 4 Diamond won´t lead us to the correct spot. Opposite a hand with 4 Spades, a singleton Diamond and Slam interesst, my hand is golden and I bid Blackwood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted September 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 I guess this has gone on long enough. And it seems there's more to hand evaluation that even George Rosenkranz imagines. :-) The putative auction, after 1♣-1♠-(2♦)-2♠-3♦-3♠-4♥-5♣-6♣-7♠-all pass. After 4♥, opener reasoned that partner was making a slam try all along with 3♦, showing first round control, and that 4♥ shows first round control of hearts. With [hv=d=s&s=skjxxhxdqxxcaqxxx]133|100|[/hv] opener decided he liked his hand, and cooperated with the slam try by cue-bidding his ♣A. When responder then cue-bid 6♣, he reasoned this was a grand slam try holding ♣K, so the jump to 7♠ was "easy". The actual hands:[hv=d=s&n=saxxxxxhaxxdaxckx&s=skjxxhxdqxxcaqxxx]133|200|[/hv] The book is Godfrey's Bridge Challenge, George Rosenkranz and Phillip Alder, 1996. Chapter 1 is on hand evaluation. The main point is how the value of opener's hand changed with every bid his partner made. A hand that started out as a minimum opening bid became, in the end, worth a grand slam. What I found most interesting is the analysis as the bidding went along. It was, I supposed, an insight into the thinking of experts. I was surprised that nobody here thought along similar lines at any point. :) Personally, I think Blackwood is overrated - and overused. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 My head just exploded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted September 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Well, clean up the mess, then. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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