High-level decision

[ArtK78]

[hv=d=w&v=n&s=sajxxhqtxxxdakxcx]133|100|Scoring: MP

1♠-P-1NT-2♥

P-4♥-4NT-X

P-P-5♣-?[/hv]

 

1) What do you do over 5♣?

 

2) Any comments on the previous bidding?

[jtfanclub]

[hv=d=w&v=n&s=sajxxhqtxxxdakxcx]133|100|Scoring: MP

1♠-P-1NT-2♥

P-4♥-4NT-X

P-P-5♣-?[/hv]

 

1) What do you do over 5♣?

 

2) Any comments on the previous bidding?

I think the X of 4NT set up a forcing pass situation. I'm not so sure I like this, since I think we'll have an easy 200 at 4NT but a difficult 100 at 5♣X.

 

Having set it up, though, I guess I'll pass now. In for a penny...

[pclayton]

I'll crack it.

 

if I don't. LHO could have taken a preference over 4N and didn't so LHO is probably 3-3 in the minors. A 5=2=3=3 seems likely. I think we can beat 5♣ with a diamond ruff easily enough.

 

5♥? I think we are suffering a spade ruff at T1 (otherwise 5♣ is down at least 2) and we are probably losing a club and a heart, and maybe another spade in the wash. A likely hand type for pard is: xx, AKxxxx, xx, xxx.

 

By the way I wouldn't have overcalled on this ugly suit and the spade length over me but it seems to have paid off nicely. If I pass I'm guessing LHO is rebidding 2♣ (1N is forcing, right?) and I can reopen.

[jtfanclub]

A likely hand type for pard is: xx, AKxxxx, xx, xxx.

But that hand makes 5 hearts, while 5♣ goes down 1, or 2 if you find the AK ruff with the diamond.

 

I'm going to assume that if opener had 7 spades, he wouldn't pass 2♥.

[jdonn]

Seems like an easy pass, the double of 4NT followed by passing 5♣ should get partner to do the right thing. I think the previous auction is fine.

[han]

Agree with Adam.

[awm]

Agree with Adam.

I agree with Josh Donn. I guess this means Hannie does too, since he preemptively agreed with me before I could post?

[cherdano]

I agree with Mike.

 

Seriously, doubling 4N and passing 5♣ seems right.

[jdonn]

I agree with Hannie.

[han]

Huh? Not sure why I thought that Adam wrote that instead of Josh. I did.

 

I still agree but now more reluctantly.

[Codo]

I don´t know whith whom I disagree, but I would pass now and had never bid 2 Heart.

[Finch]

I agree with Frances

[paulg]

I agree with Frances

I concur, good choice.

[helene_t]

I'm not sure about this one but I probably agree with Justin and/or Gonzales.

[ArtK78]

[hv=n=stxxxhkjxxxdxxcxx&w=skqxxxhxxdqxcaqxx&e=shadjtxxxxcktxxxx&s=sajxxhqtxxxdakxcx]399|300|[/hv]

 

Interesting choices.

 

I doubled 5♣ because I didn't want partner to bid again as I was sure that I was going plus in 5♣ and there was certainly no assurance that we could make 11 tricks in hearts. Partner's 4♥ bid was clearly based on distribution. With power, he would have cue bid rather than jumped to game.

 

If I pass over 5♣, it is not at all clear what partner will do. The winning action turns out to be 5♥ since 5♣ is absolutely cold.

 

Hard to believe that you have no defensive tricks in the majors.

 

Query - even after you double 4NT, is the pass of 5♣ forcing? Assuming that it is, what would you do with the North hand after partner passes over 5♣?

[Finch]

Query - even after you double 4NT, is the pass of 5♣ forcing? Assuming that it is, what would you do with the North hand after partner passes over 5♣?

Yes; 5♥. The North hand has zero defensive tricks, why would it do anything other than bid?

[ArcLight]

Was the 2♥ overcall really a good bid? As opposed to passing.

Despite the good spades and the aces, thats a crappy trump suit at the 2 level.

responder can have 5 hearts and 8 points.

[ArtK78]

Personally, I don't think it is so clear to bid on with the North hand. Does he have any defense? Not exactly, but he does not have any negatives that he hasn't already announced. A sixth heart would be a negative, since partner's ♥A probably would not cash. The doubleton club is neither here nor there for defense, but it is a negative for offense. And the vulnerability is equal nonvul. Bidding on with the North hand could result in -500.

 

North should be looking for a plus score. Bidding on to 5♥ is almost certainly going to result in a minus score if partner could not bid 5♥ on his own. And the North hand does not have any strong reason to suspect that the opponents can make 5♣.

 

I didn't give my partner the opportunity to bid over 5♣, since I hit 5♣ with the South hand, which I still think is right, result notwithstanding. The chances of the South hand not having 3 cashing tricks against 5♣ has got to be pretty small, and it is almost certainly true that 5♥ cannot make.

 

But I respect the opinions of the other posters in this thread. All in all, an interesting problem and an interesting hand.

[pclayton]

Art, don't you find it strange that West passed 4N with a 5=2=2=4?

[jtfanclub]

North should be looking for a plus score. Bidding on to 5♥ is almost certainly going to result in a minus score if partner could not bid 5♥ on his own. And the North hand does not have any strong reason to suspect that the opponents can make 5♣.hand.

Sure he does...that's why he bid 4♥ in the first place.

 

Responder has spade shortness, at least one of the opponents has heart shortness. This result shouldn't be shocking.

 

Art, don't you find it strange that West passed 4N with a 5=2=2=4?

 

I think West thought 4NT could be natural, not minors. I thought so myself.

[ArtK78]

I agree that the site of dummy was a surprise. And the fact that declarer was 0166 was also a surprise.

 

A lot of things had to be wrong for 5♣x to make.

 

The idea that 4NT could be natural never occurred to me. At equal nonvul, it is hard to construct a hand which would bid a forcing 1NT over partner's 1♠ bid and then have a natural 4NT bid and not a double. A natural 4NT bid would almost have to be based on a long running minor and a heart card, and that hand would bid 2 of the minor on the first round.

[neilkaz]

I agree that the site of dummy was a surprise. And the fact that declarer was 0166 was also a surprise.

 

A lot of things had to be wrong for 5♣x to make.

 

The idea that 4NT could be natural never occurred to me. At equal nonvul, it is hard to construct a hand which would bid a forcing 1NT over partner's 1♠ bid and then have a natural 4NT bid and not a double. A natural 4NT bid would almost have to be based on a long running minor and a heart card, and that hand would bid 2 of the minor on the first round.

I agree completely and would expect 4NT to really be distributional in the minors, so the actual hand is possible, although extreme.

[skjaeran]

I think West thought 4NT could be natural, not minors. I thought so myself.

That's really bizarre to me. That 4NT could be anything but both minors would never occur to me.

 

Back to the problem. Both 2♥ and pass is possible over 1NT. I'd most probably bid 2♥.

 

Double of 4NT obviously sets up a forcing pass over 5m. I'd pass 5♣ in the actual auction and bid 5♥ as north.

 

There's nothing sensational about the layout here IMO.

[Guest Jlall]

Why are we surprised our majors aren't cashing and that RHO is 6-6? Look at his bidding. Anyways, I agree with han as always.

[mikeh]

I think West thought 4NT could be natural, not minors.  I thought so myself.

That's really bizarre to me. That 4NT could be anything but both minors would never occur to me.

 

Back to the problem. Both 2♥ and pass is possible over 1NT. I'd most probably bid 2♥.

 

Double of 4NT obviously sets up a forcing pass over 5m. I'd pass 5♣ in the actual auction and bid 5♥ as north.

 

There's nothing sensational about the layout here IMO.

I agree with Harald

 

I am late to the this very agreeable post, and sorry to disappoint Cherdano if he agrees, now, with someone else :P