jdonn Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 [hv=d=s&v=b&s=sjt843h7dj7caq974]133|100|Scoring: IMPP P 1♦ 1♥1♠ 4♥ DBL P?[/hv] No special agreements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 It could, of course, be 'right' to pull: but it doesn't seem like the percentage action. BTW, I'm glad I'm on lead, not partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted September 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 It could, of course, be 'right' to pull: but it doesn't seem like the percentage action. BTW, I'm glad I'm on lead, not partner. to lead a.....?btw why are there no votes for pass in the poll? hanging chads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 I voted for 5C, I expected that that would be more popular than pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 It could, of course, be 'right' to pull: but it doesn't seem like the percentage action. BTW, I'm glad I'm on lead, not partner. to lead a.....? To avoid a spade lead I'd guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 I voted for 5C, I expected that that would be more popular than pass. 5♣ of course COULD be the winning action, but I'm with Justin and Mike here; pass is the odds on action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Isn't double take-out ish? If so, I take out partner's take out doubles. What to, is not clear. If partner has KQx of spades, I bid 4S, if not I bid 5C Unfortunately, lacking x-ray specs I have to guess, and so I guess 5C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Pass. What else? For whats it worth, double is justshowing values / power. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Since I'm a passed hand, 4♠ implies a second place to play. Otherwise I would pass. Did 1♠ show five? In that case I pass since p might have bid 4♠ with three spades. If 1♠ showed four, I bid 4♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Pass is sound, but I'll bid - 4NT. I don't want to be declarer, so I'll risk partner's choice (that's why pass is so sensible!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 For me, 1♠ shows 5 and a neg dbl shows 4 and PD's dbl is quite penalty oriented with extra strength or trumps with a couple honors. My hand should provide at least 1 trick on defence. They are vul and lets hope we get them down 2 which is a better shot than gambling on 5m (noting if PD wanted to play 4♠ and had 3 card support he'd bid it). Pass should win more IMPs in the long run, IMHO .. neilkaz .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Isn't double take-out ish? If so, I take out partner's take out doubles. lol. You really think the last statement applies at the 4 level? It should be pretty obvious simply from a common sense point of view that most takeout Xs at the 4 level are left in. That's not to say that passing here is clearly right but if your reasoning for pulling it is "I take out takeout Xs" then that is really silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeegan Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 :blink: Pass. I really don't get the logic of any other bid - contracting for 10 or 11 tricks instead of four tricks on defense. Of course, there will be some hands where 4♠ or 5♣ is a winner, but one has to play the percentages. Partner shouldn't have soft heart values in front of the overcaller. He also won't have 4♠. A typical hand for partner would be a 2NT rebid with three ♥ and two or three ♠: QxAQxAK10xxKxx 4♥ is sure to go down 2 or 3, but our game is thin. KQxAxxKQ109KJ10x This could be the disaster hand. We make 4 or 5 ♠. They might make 4♥ with two black singletons. A secondary 4 card ♣ fit with 3♠ makes bidding on correct. What are the odds of that versus all other possible distributions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 A big winner for muidenberg or alike I agree with everything Helene said and would bid 4♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 I told Ira Chorush about this thread and asked him about his thoughts. He didn't immediately recognize the hand but was quite sure he would have bid 5C. His main argument for 5C is that the big win comes when partner can raise to 6C and you score 1370 vs 800. With a weak hand he wouldn't usually pull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 I really don't understand the 4S bidders (7 of them!!). You have shown 5+ spades so now you rebid them and partner is supposed to figured out that you really don't want to play there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Did we show 5 spades already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted September 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Did we show 5 spades already? Yes. I assume negative doubles are standard, but sorry I should have mentioned it to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 I don't like to bid that much then, but I'd still try 5♣ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 I also voted 4♠, although I'm not convinced it's the right action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Obviously part of the point of the discussion is what partner has to double on. Even if playing that 1S promises 4+ spades, partner would still just bid 4S on some strong 3154, so I really don't like the 4S bid here. Personally I would bid 5C. But I don't think partner's double shows a balanced 18-count with AQx of hearts. I think partner should have what are known in the trade as 'convertible values' and we have a hand that looks like converting them. Something likeAxxxAKxxxKxxx is pretty light in HCP for a double (although it's good in controls), and we want to be in 5C opposite that hand. In fact, I agree that passing has probably a marginally higher imp expectation than bidding, assuming oppo always do the right thing, but this is what is known as taking out insurance: it depends a bit on the event, but in most imps matches I can live with a couple of 1-off vs 1-off for the times where both games are making. (this is a very long way round of saying what Hannie just said) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Obviously part of the point of the discussion is what partner has to double on. Even if playing that 1S promises 4+ spades, partner would still just bid 4S on some strong 3154, so I really don't like the 4S bid here. Personally I would bid 5C. But I don't think partner's double shows a balanced 18-count with AQx of hearts. I think partner should have what are known in the trade as 'convertible values' and we have a hand that looks like converting them. Something likeAxxxAKxxxKxxx is pretty light in HCP for a double (although it's good in controls), and we want to be in 5C opposite that hand. In fact, I agree that passing has probably a marginally higher imp expectation than bidding, assuming oppo always do the right thing, but this is what is known as taking out insurance: it depends a bit on the event, but in most imps matches I can live with a couple of 1-off vs 1-off for the times where both games are making. (this is a very long way round of saying what Hannie just said) I don't think we are saying exactly the same thing but I agree with most of what you say. I wouldn't bid though if I thought that the IMP expectation of passing was higher. Also, I asked Ira if he would bid 5C if partner was forced to pass it no matter what. He said that in that case he expected 5C still to be the winner but only by a very small margin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 It could, of course, be 'right' to pull: but it doesn't seem like the percentage action. BTW, I'm glad I'm on lead, not partner. to lead a.....? To avoid a spade lead I'd guess. yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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