ochinko Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Partner deals and opens 1♠, RHO passes. What do you bid with this hand? [hv=d=n&v=e&s=sahj10842da982ck86]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 I'm doubling. You have to get in there low. 2♥ is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bid_em_up Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 I'm doubling. You have to get in there low. 2♥ is wrong. Huh? I'm bidding 2♥, doubling isn't an option. No, seriously, not only is double not an option, it's not even a legal call. :P (I assume Phil was joking?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Phil thought RHO had opened 1♠. I bid 1NT. Hate blocked suits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTired Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 50/50. Today I bid 1N, but can't argue much with 2H. If opener has 3♥ or opens soundly then 2H will work best. If game is unmakable, 1N will work best. I don't think either bid is "wrong" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 It's a close call in my view. Do you want to force to game or not? The heart suit is not exactly great, but it's likely the last chance to get hearts in if we have a 5-3 fit. Being non-vulnerable at IMPs I think I will settle for 1NT. Maybe I can catch up later if partner's rebid requires action. The only rebid I will pass is 2♠, and then I am quite happy that I did not force to game. I am sure partner can have hands where game is a fair shot even if he rebids his spades, but I am not too worried. Vulnerable I would have gone for 2♥. This is how close it is as far as I am concerned. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 but it's likely the last chance to get hearts in if we have a 5-3 fit. Well, there are some cases where you can fish out the heart fit, e.g. 1♠ 1NT2m 2NT3♥ but yeah, a direct 2♥ will find it 100% of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 2♥ for me... Sure its a 12 count. However, this has two bullets and a King. The stiff Ace would normally be bad news, but if its opposite partner's suit it (should) be supporting some honors. (Plus I have a sound opening across from me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Agree that this is a close call and depends on your opening style. I'd bid 1NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 I'm doubling. You have to get in there low. 2♥ is wrong. Huh? I'm bidding 2♥, doubling isn't an option. No, seriously, not only is double not an option, it's not even a legal call. :) (I assume Phil was joking?) ROFL; yes of course. Although I do confuse RHO with my partner a lot (they both make my life difficult :P ) If pard opened 1♠, I'd try 1N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Game force it. I feel really strongly that all close calls in a 2/1 system should just game force. The system strength is when you are in a GF. The system weakness is when you have about inv values and have to go through 1N. This leads me to believe close calls should just go through the GF, even if it's not QUITE worth it. Just as an example it will be very tough to bid slams accurately if you start with 1N, and it will be very hard to find 5-3 heart fits when you belong in 4H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 I G/F it as well; bidding a forcing NT leads to some awkward sequences where pard rebids in their 3 card minor on a 5-3-(xx) hand and miss 4♥ versus the SAYC bidders. That, and I have decent controls for a change... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 With my regular partner I bid a non-forcing 1NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 This is one of the reasons why I dislike Jacoby 2NT -- I liked an old alternative I used to play. The alternative, after a 1♠ opening, was for 2NT to show GF values and 5+ hearts. 1♠-P-2♥ was then invitational only, with 5+ hearts, non-forcing (no spade fit). Or, reverse the "which is GF" meaning, if you will. It was, admittedly, used as a solution for a canape approach problem, but the auctions seemed to work very well, especially when Opener held a weak, balanced hand and could pass 2♥ as the right call. The 2NT GF does jump us up a bit, but not really that much, as practice showed that the number of occurrences of two 5-card major suits and no fit in either was relatively rare. Canape may have protected some of Opener's rebid issues, perhaps. I never tried it in the context of a standard/natural approach, but I always have wanted to try it. Barring that alternative, I think I'll GF this and end up in trouble on occasion. Thank God that I and my partner can pull in silly 3NT contracts with uncanny frequency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 Having a game forcing 2NT response to show hearts seems terrible to me. You remove opener's easy 2♠ and 2NT rebid options, which seems impossible to recover from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 Having a game forcing 2NT response to show hearts seems terrible to me. You remove opener's easy 2♠ and 2NT rebid options, which seems impossible to recover from. Yeah -- that's the part I could never work out with standard. With the canape approach I used, Opener either had four spades and a longer second suit (he'd complete the canape), or 6+ spades (3♠), or a balanced minimum with 4-5 spades and 3+ hearts (raise hearts). 3NT meant something also, but I cannot remember what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 Is close, but I'll GF this as well with 2 aces and a king. Perhaps my stiff ace finds PD with the K as it is in his suit. .. neilkaz .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCal Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 I agree with ken: I'll GF this hand. Unfortunately, all of my partners play Jacoby 2NT. I'll bid 2H and hope this is not the unlikely hand where only 1NT (or something else equally silly) makes. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 oh no, another hand with 5 hearts and pd opens 1♠ :P:( gf i suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 2H. Too many controls to bid 1NT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 Game force it. I feel really strongly that all close calls in a 2/1 system should just game force. The system strength is when you are in a GF. The system weakness is when you have about inv values and have to go through 1N. This leads me to believe close calls should just go through the GF, even if it's not QUITE worth it. Just as an example it will be very tough to bid slams accurately if you start with 1N, and it will be very hard to find 5-3 heart fits when you belong in 4H. This is the everyday's history, If you bid undisciplined 2/1 you also lose some of the advantages of being in GF since your range becomes too wide and inaccurate. I don't care about losing a 5-3 heart fit when the 5 card suit is poor, we could make 3NT running only spade tricks and minor tops. 1NT for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 Playing 2/1 GF, this is obviously a very close call. However, if you play BART, you are better placed after a 1NT response as you have a method to uncover a 5 card heart suit with just under game forcing values. With my regular partner I play BART and I play that 1♠-2♥ is not game forcing. So, this hand is an easy 2♥ call. BART is reserved for hands of slightly less strength with hearts or some other awkward game-invitational hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 The hand in question is nowhere near as strong as, for example, x AJ10xx Kxxx Axx. I would not gf with this. 1N. Then, over 2 anything (other than 2♥), I bid 2N. We may still back into a 5-3 heart fit if he rebids 2minor, since with all 5341 or 5314 hands and accepting values, he will bid 3♥ along the way. We will miss the heart fit when he is 5332 or 5323... and, usually, when he has a 6 card spade suit. This is a very close call, but the stiff A, even in partner's suit, is not pulling full weight, and the 5 card suit is weak... these are both warnings to downgrade, and I would ignore one, with this hand, but not two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 1NT for me. Not enough to game force opposite the stuff my partner opens.(but I'm happy I play some system by opener after this) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 We may still back into a 5-3 heart fit if he rebids 2minor, since with all 5341 or 5314 hands and accepting values, he will bid 3♥ along the way. It's the "with accepting values part" that worries me. If partner has a 53(41) 11 or 12 count I'd rather play 4H than 2N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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