How to bid this?

[MickyB]

1NT auctions are clearly simpler and more comfortable for beginners, so I'm surprised that it isn't normal to encourage them to open 1NT more often.

[jtfanclub]

I agree with this. Whether beginners should be taught that a 5422-shape is always, never or sometimes a 1NT-opening, I have no strong opinion about, but most (all?) beginner's books say it's never a 1NT opening

I can't say I like those books...

 

Q5

AQT7

KJ754

KJ

 

You're setting yourself up for a world of hurt if you open this 1♦.

 

I don't have a problem with people who don't open 1NT with 5422 if it doesn't have a rebid problem (such as the original case), but I suspect 5422's have rebid problems more often than not.

 

Maybe most experts X on the original sequence, I dunno. But to me, even though I don't play support doubles, that should still strongly imply 3 hearts (4-3-1-5 or 4-3-2-4 distribution).

[Wackojack]

As for the meaning of the dbl: I think beginner's should learn that this double is t/o unless specifically agreed as penalty, but I suppose most bridge teachers disagree with me on this.

I have just tried to make a stab at formulating a rule in this situation and it seem very complex for beginners and even intermediates. Here is a try which no doubt is still unsatisfactory:

 

After you open 1 of a suit and partner make a natural response in another suit and RHO intervenes with a 3rd suit, then a double by you is for take out. This means that it would normally show 4 cards in the unbid suit. This applies to interventions up to the level of ??? There are implications for partner if you have a hand that has to pass this intervention. Partner needs to be mindful that you are unlikely to hold 4 cards in the unbid suit and may have a hand that would otherwise have doubled the intevention for penalties. Thus a double here is also for take out. (Which of course opener could leave in for penalties with a suitable hand)

 

I wouldn't like to to explain this to any beginner and also most intermediate players. (At least not until they have mastered completely the normal sputnik double and the normal re-opening double) Is there a simpler way of explaining? Indeed have I got the finer points of the compexity in these siuation?

[helene_t]

I wouldn't like to to explain this to any beginner and also most intermediate players.  (At least not until they have mastered completely the normal sputnik double and the normal re-opening double)  Is there a simpler way of explaining?

Something like

"A double of a natural bid in a suit generally shows a hand with constructive values and no clear direction. It will typically be based on some length in the unbid suit(s), tollerance (but not primary support) for partner's suit, and if doublers own suit was already known to be at least a 4-card while rebiding if would show 6, a double will often be based on a 5-card. IOW a little bit of everything. Since a double is the most flexible call available, it is generally the default call when the hand is too strong and/or too offense-oriented to risk passing, while no other call appeals.

 

Responding to a double: Assume doubler has a singleton in the enemy suit and therefore, in general, only leave in the double if you have, incluing partners single trump, at least many trumps as you need tricks to defeat the contract. I.e. to pass a 1-level double you need six trumps, at the 2-level 5 trumps etc. This means that you will have to bid something even with zero points and even with less than ideal length for the bid. Do not bid notrump in dispare: notrump bids in response to a double are generally constructive. If you have a good hand (in context), consider that you would have made a non-jump bid in a suit with no (extra) values, so to show your good hand you typically have to jump or make a cuebid.

 

If you would like to penalize opps, pass and hope partner will reopen. If you have game-forcing values and haven't showed that yet, however, it may be safer to bid 3NT right away instead of passing, since passing could lead to defening undoubled if partner cannot reopen.

 

There are some situations in which common sense or common convention dictates that a double of a natural bid in a suit is for penalties. The most important one to know is that if LHO overcalls your preempt, partner's double is for penalties."

[ralph23]

Generalisation 1: Beginners dislike opening 1N (or playing in NT), tend to look for excuses not to open 1N, and absolutely would never open an "off-shape" 1N, having half an excuse not to do so.

From Mike Lawrence's Judgment At Bridge (on the "omnipresent 1♣" or whatever he called this affliction):

 

A lady in his class held a 16 count, balanced, with 2 small clubs. She opened (of course :P ) 1♣.

 

After the lesson hand, Lawrence asked her, "Why didn't you open 1NT?"

 

Her response: "Well, I couldn't stop clubs."

 

Lawrence's comment in the book after this example: "I am not making this up."