jillybean Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: IMP ♠ 84 ♥ AJ93 ♦ AJT984 ♣ 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTired Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 1D. This hand is too strong for a weak 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 1♦ playing standard. Pass playing weak NT's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfay Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Clear 1♦ bid to me. You can handle anything you partner throws at you: 1♦-1♥-2♥ 1♦-1X-2♦ It's got a lot of playing strength in the reds. Not even especially aggressive in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 You just KNOW this isn't going to be unanimous, darn it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 I am not aggressive, I wouldn't bid 3♥ over 1♦-1♥. (Just kidding, the hand clearly isn't good enough for that, but I have seen advanced players do it with worse hands :) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 1♦ opening here and I'm very aggressive ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumpace Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 1♦ playing standard. Pass playing weak NT's. Why the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted September 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Seems like we have the forum bridge players and then the rest of them :P My "expert" partner made a comment about opening on less than 12 and left soonafter this board. [hv=d=s&v=n&n=sak75hk72dk5ckj65&s=s84haj93dajt984c9]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - - 1♦ Pass 1♠ Pass 2♦ Pass 4NT Pass 5♥ Pass 6NT Pass Pass Pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Your expert partner is a walrus. It seems a reasonable continuation would have been for him to bid clubs, you to bid 3N and him to quant back with 4N where you would play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheoKole Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 1 Diamond I have an easy rebid of 2 diamonds after a 1 spade 1 NT or 2 clubs reply. If p replies 1 heart I can raise I would accept any invitaional bid after a heart fit is found. We could have an easy game with only 20 hcp. That would mean though that the opps also would have a game in spades, so I won't accept any double of partners against spades by opponents below the 5 level. I will have to have my antenna way up on this deal. Cheers, Theo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Your expert partner is a walrus. Nah, the Walrus would have said: "Partner has shown 12-14 hcp. I have 17. Total is 29-31. Therefore, no slam." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 This is a rock solid 1♦ opening. Only 10 hcp, but 6-4, two aces and very good interiors. What more could you ask for? :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 My roommates make fun of me for being conservative with opening bids and I would open this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 I consider myself to be an aggressive bidder. I pass. It is easier to describe this hand by bidding after passing. Besides, if you open 1♦, your partner never plays you for a real diamond suit until several rounds later in the auction. But if you overcall diamonds, you have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Man, every time I'm sure a vote must surely be unanimous, some aggressive bidder has to come along and pass :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted September 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 ArtK78, I'll hook you up with my ex pard :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 I don't know Jilly. :( It seems they are saying a "concentrated 20" rule is ok to open one of a minor it seems. xx..xx...x.....AKQJxxxxorAx...xx...x....KQJxxxxxorAx...Ax...x....Qxxxxxxx Or your example. Perhaps this rule may or may not break down for even longer minors with fewer hcp. For example perhaps you need more total hcp than your longest suit. I guess that would mean you need a "concentrated 20 with more total hcp than your longest suit rule."Perhaps not a 100% perfect rule, but it seems to be what the forum is saying. In your example you have 10 cards in your two longest suits, ten hcp, your hcp are in your longest suits and you have more total hcp...10, than your longest suit, 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 I guess that means if you have: KQxxxQxxxxxKQorKQxxxKQxxxxQx Pass would be ok in first or second seat since an unconcentrated 20? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 I don't know Jilly. :( It seems they are saying a "concentrated 20" rule is ok to open one of a minor it seems. xx..xx...x.....AKQJxxxxorAx...xx...x....KQJxxxxxorAx...Ax...x....Qxxxxxxx Or your example. Perhaps this rule may or may not break down for even longer minors with fewer hcp. For example perhaps you need more total hcp than your longest suit. I guess that would mean you need a "concentrated 20 with more total hcp than your longest suit rule."Perhaps not a 100% perfect rule, but it seems to be what the forum is saying. In your example you have 10 cards in your two longest suits, ten hcp, your hcp are in your longest suits and you have more total hcp...10, than your longest suit, 6.I don't think so, Mike. While there may be some real-life experts who teach the Rule of 20 (indeed, I understand that this rule originated with a better player than me) I don't know any who actually use it themselves. It is a crutch to help B/I players while they are learning more subtle hand evaluation techniques than simply counting points, but my belief is that, with any crutch, once a player's abilities reach a certain point, the crutch is a hindrance rather than a help. In discussions to which I have been party, concerning aggressive openings, the justifications put forward by experts for light openings may include one or more of the following: 1) ease of rebidding 2) difficulty catching up after a pass 3) too good to preempt 4) losing trick count 5) controls 6) all values in long suits 7) spot cards 8) least common: hcp Never have I heard a real-life expert explain a bid by reference to the rule of 20, modified or otherwise. With the example hand here, there are good controls, no rebid issues, too good to preempt (not to mention the difficulty most have finding a 4-4 heart fit after a diamond preempt), difficulty catching up after a pass, good ltc, all values in long suits. While this hand is at the lowest end of the range for me to open 1♦, I would strongly object to any other call.. and my current expert partners would think I had fallen asleep if they saw me pass.. and think I'd had a brain infarction if I opened a weak 2 (and I play a method of showing a 4 card major after opening a weak 2). This game is too subtle to be encapsulated by simple numerical rules for hand evaluation, and you do (unintentionally, I know) a disservice to the other posters here when you suggest a simplistic explanation for a complex situation. I suspect that more of the bidders thought as I have outlined (at least to some degree) rather than use a modified rule of 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zasanya Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 I voted pass.I must be wrong or a walrus or a chicken.Yet cant understand how passing would lose.Easy to understand a P having 17 points 6 controls and and dbltn trump K against my 6card trump suit and opening hand blasting to slam.I wouldn't have left the table though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Justin opened it, that says it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted September 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Justin opened it, that says it all. I want to see his roommates opening hands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 I open 1D. It is easier to describe this hand by bidding than by passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 I would pass only in a forcing pass system or in 4. seat. The bidding and behaviour from the expert was like we expect it from an "expert". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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