competitive auction2

[jillybean]

What would you bid here please, and why if there is any thinking invloved :)

 

Hand1:

Dealer: North Vul: None Scoring: IMP ♠ JT654 ♥ 4 ♦ AJT87 ♣ Q5

 

West North East South

 

 -     Pass  Pass  Pass

 2♥    Pass  Pass  ?

 

 

Hand2:

 

Dealer: North Vul: NS Scoring: IMP ♠ AJT9 ♥ T7 ♦ QJ853 ♣ A3

 

West North East South

 

 -     Pass  1♥    ?

 

 

Hand3:

Dealer: West Vul: NS Scoring: IMP ♠ 2 ♥ A54 ♦ AKQ54 ♣ QJ85

 

West North East South

 

 1NT   Pass  Pass   

[P_Marlowe]

#1 Pass.

Partner was not able to open, and

you are broke as well.

 

#2 Pass, but I can live with 2D or 1S.

 

#3 Pass, for most peoble 2C and 2D are

artificial, i.e. you cant play 2m, and

why should one play on the 3 level?

If partner has something, they go down,

if not we go down at the 3 level.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Guest Jlall]

1) 2S, gotta compete with a stiff heart and 5-5.

 

2) X, gotta get in there.

 

3) depends on your system

[jillybean]

3) No agreements over 1nt so errr, natural.

[Guest Jlall]

3) No agreements over 1nt so errr, natural.

I would smack them off I guess, 2D is certainly reasonable too.

[Mr. Dodgy]

1. 2♠. ditto jlall

 

2. 2♦ then ?♠s, but I play a kinda funny overcall structure.

 

3. indeed depends on methods, my preference is Penalty Double.

[Codo]

1. pass against most, 2 Spade against good opps (they had bid more if they had a chance to make 4).

 

2. raptor 1 NT if avaiable, but x else

 

3. 2 ♦, x second choice

[whereagles]

1. Since pard is a passed hand, I'll pass as well. Could be very wrong (we might be cold for 4♠), but I'm willing to risk that.

 

2. Dbl. Better to get in early, despite a slight shape distortion, than to guess later.

 

3. Dbl or 2♦, depending on how pard is with his leads :P

[jtfanclub]

What would you bid here please, and why if there is any thinking invloved :P

 

Hand1:

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sjt654h4dajt87cq5]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Hand2:

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sjt654h4dajt87cq5]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Hand3:

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sjt654h4dajt87cq5]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

Hand 1- 2♠. I'm a passed hand, so partner won't get frisky. If I was not a passed hand, I'd probably pass it out.

 

Hand 2- X, but only because partner's a passed hand. If he wasn't, I'd probably just overcall 1♠.

 

Hand 3- OK, I give up. Whether I X or bid 2♦, they're going to bid 2 of a major (I only have 4 cards in the majors, after all). I can't imagine that we have game. So I'll take my 150 or 200 and go home.

 

After

 

1NT P P X

P.. P XX P

2♠ P P

 

Now what? Do I really like 2♠ doubled?

[han]

1. Clear 2S.

 

2. Double, second choice 1S.

 

3. Double.

[jillybean]

Thanks for the replies, here are the full hands.

 

Hand1: I did bid 2♠ and partner left me there, bottom board.

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=s9hak87d96542ckj4&w=sq3hqj9652dqcat32&e=sak872ht3dk3c9876&s=sjt654h4dajt87cq5]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     Pass  Pass  Pass

 2♥    Pass  Pass  2♠

 Pass  Pass  Pass  

 

 

 

Hand2: I tried 'michaels' and the auction went awry. Must to remember to double here! I have been using double to show support for all other suits or a hand too strong for a simple overcall.

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=s9hak87d96542ckj4&w=sq3hqj9652dqcat32&e=sak872ht3dk3c9876&s=sjt654h4dajt87cq5]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     Pass  1♥    2♥

 Pass  3♣    Pass  3♦

 3♥    3NT   Pass  Pass

 Dbl   Pass  Pass  Pass

 

 

 

Hand3 : I did bid 2♦

 

Instead if I

smack them off

I would double?

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=s9hak87d96542ckj4&w=sq3hqj9652dqcat32&e=sak872ht3dk3c9876&s=sjt654h4dajt87cq5]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 1NT   Pass  Pass  2♦

 Dbl   Pass  Pass  Pass

 

[SoTired]

At IMPS, you fight for the partial with a slight different purpose than at MP. At MP, a lower negative score makes a big difference and all boards count the same, so you might risk a rare disaster to turn a -140 into a -100. At IMPS, you only care about positive score when partials are involved. The size of the positive or negative score makes little difference. For example, -140 vs -100 is only 1 IMP difference, but -140 vs +50 is a 5 IMP difference.

-110 vs +110 is 6 IMPS.

 

Now compare that to -140 vs -500 (a disaster struck) is 12 IMPS. So all you need is a 2 to 1 ratio for common IMP partial swings vs rare disasters to make it a good deal. So we bid in these cases not because there might be a game, but to fight for the partial that we might make, hoping to turn a negative score into a positive one.

 

 

1. 2S. Fighting for the partial. We have an excellent offensive hand and must compete for the partial. Plus, maybe partner has a stack of hearts and 3H is not making, while 2H makes.

 

2. X, 2D, 1S. A good hand has to compete. This is a perfect hand for a takeout dbl playing "equal level conversion." If partner bids 2C, we can bid 2D showing no additional strength. Even not playing ELC, we can double and hope partner has 5♣ for a 2C bid.

 

3. X, although 2D might work better. 2D works better if opps run to 2M, because then we can bid 3C.

[SoTired]

You got in trouble in #2, because your "partner" chose twice not to bid spades.

[P_Marlowe]

[Guest Jlall]

Jilly, the first exceptions to normal t/o Xing shapes you will learn are 4225 and 4333.

 

When they open 1M and you have 4 of the other major and 5 of a minor and 2-2 and about an opening bid I would recommend almost always doubling (though obviously with xx xxxx AKQJx Kx I would overcall 2D).

 

A lot of people would not agree with me but in my experience it works well and is what most experts are doing. The reason is that overcalling in the minor often risks missing a fit in the major (your most likely game), and is significantly more dangerous than starting with a double.

 

Saying you have to play ELC to X with this shape is silly. You just gamble that partner isn't going to hang you in your 2 card minor. Sure you may wind up at the 3 level in a 5-2 fit, but worse things have happened. You may even end up in a 4-2 fit at the 2 level, but that is really unlikely. Consider what has to happen. Partner needs a hand that can't bid 1N, and that doesn't have 4 of the other major, exactly 4 of the minor and your opponents need to just stop bidding. If your opponents have just stopped bidding that means partner has at least 4 of their suit, and some values, and... it's beginning to sound like he has a 1N bid. In my experience you will very rarely land in a 4-2 fit at the 2 level here.

 

All this being said, the hand in the original post has marginal values and marginal shape so if you passed I would not criticize you (even though that is not my style at all), but I would say doubling is significantly better than any other possible bid you could make.

 

Another shape to look out for is 4342, eg KQxx xxx AJxx KJ. If your opps open 1H you need to be doubling with this hand. Also 4333 eg AKxx xxx KJx Kxx, you need to X 1H.

 

One final note, don't get this confused with doubling 1 of a minor with a doubleton major (which I would never do without the 18+ hand type).

[Guest Jlall]

On a seperate note, I think partner is supposed to bid 2N after the 2S balance over which you can bid 3D. This may have a lot to do with your style in third seat though (Could you pass with a 1 suiter in spades and then come in?)

[jillybean]

What is ELC?

[jillybean]

On a seperate note, I think partner is supposed to bid 2N after the 2S balance over which you can bid 3D. This may have a lot to do with your style in third seat though (Could you pass with a 1 suiter in spades and then come in?)

I do not have any agreements over 2♠ here. 2nt says I don't like your suit and asks opener for a second suit?

[Guest Jlall]

On a seperate note, I think partner is supposed to bid 2N after the 2S balance over which you can bid 3D. This may have a lot to do with your style in third seat though (Could you pass with a 1 suiter in spades and then come in?)

I do not have any agreements over 2♠ here. 2nt says I don't like your suit and asks opener for a second suit?

I don't know, was just throwing it out there as a thought. I have never discussed or seen this auction

[SoTired]

ELC = equal level conversion. A convention that if takeout dbler corrects the cheapest takeout suit to the next suit up at the same level, it does not show any extra strength.

 

Examples playing this convention:

1H X p 2C 2D = 4s and 5+d, min

1D X p 2C 2H = 4s and 5+h, min

 

Justine is saying that with an opening hand with 4 cards in the other major and 52 or 42 in the minors, he makes a takeout dbl even if not playing ELC.

 

Play this rule: A takeout dbl promises an opening bid and 3+ cards in unbid majors. That's it.

[skjaeran]

What is ELC?

ELC = Equal Level Conversion. Playing ELC you can double a major with 4 cards in the other major and 5+ ♦'s, planning to bid ♦'s if partner responds in ♣'s without promising extra strenght. You can find more about it in this thread: http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?showtopic=20987