CSGibson Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 If you have a flat 5-3-3-2 17 count and partner opens 1NT (15-17), how do you give him a choice of playing in NT or your 5 card major? Is it as simple as transfering and then making a quantitative raise to 6 of your major, or are there other methods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerardo Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 transfer then 4NT, quantitative, can be accepted with 6M and 6NT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted September 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 transfer then 4NT, quantitative, can be accepted with 6M and 6NT Sure, that works when you want to invite to a slam, but what about when you know you are going to a slam and just want to have partner choose between your major and NT? If my 5-3-3-2 17 count is not quite in your forcing-to-slam range, then make it an 18 count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Transfer then 5N shows 5332 choice of slams. Partner can also introduce a new 5 card suit of his own to try and get to a 5-3 fit there. If you want to grand slam force in the major bid texas then 5N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted September 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Transfer then 5N shows 5332 choice of slams. Partner can also introduce a new 5 card suit of his own to try and get to a 5-3 fit there. If you want to grand slam force in the major bid texas then 5N. OK, that's definitely an option, but doesn't that give up 5NT as invitational to 7NT (with a 20-21 count, perhaps)? Not that it wouldn't be worth the trade off, I'm just wondering if it would be better to agree that NT-Jacoby transfer-accept-6 (transfer suit) is exactly 5 of the transfer suit and quantitative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 deleted random silliness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Transfer then 5N shows 5332 choice of slams. Partner can also introduce a new 5 card suit of his own to try and get to a 5-3 fit there. If you want to grand slam force in the major bid texas then 5N. OK, that's definitely an option, but doesn't that give up 5NT as invitational to 7NT (with a 20-21 count, perhaps)? Not that it wouldn't be worth the trade off, I'm just wondering if it would be better to agree that NT-Jacoby transfer-accept-6 (transfer suit) is exactly 5 of the transfer suit and quantitative. Yes you have no way to show your 5 card major and then make a quantitative invite to 7N. Keep in mind though, if you are not specifically 5332 you can just transfer then bid your 4 card minor (or go through smolen with 5-4 majors). So the hand you are worrying about is a 5 card major and quantitative to 7, in which case you have to just bid 1N-5N and not show your major along the way which is also what you do with a 5 card minor and quantitative to 7. It's a little inferior, but to be honest I have never had a hand that is specifically 5332 with a 5 card major and 20-21. I have very often had a hand that is 17-19ish with 5332 opposite a 1N opener. Obviously the latter is much more frequent and better to cater to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 With my partner I had that and faked a 5422. Ee ended up in 6♥ and opponent made a safe lead, safe only if I actually had 5422, not 5332, it gave the contract. He argued something about psyching artificial bids, I wonder if he had any reason on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 He argued something about psyching artificial bids, I wonder if he had any reason on that. No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 There is always 3♠ natural and forcing. This allows partner to cue with a spade fit, or rebid 3NT with doubleton after which various quantitative raises are available. Then again, Elianna and I are probably one of the few pairs playing this treatment today. :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 There is always 3♠ natural and forcing. This allows partner to cue with a spade fit, or rebid 3NT with doubleton after which various quantitative raises are available. Then again, Elianna and I are probably one of the few pairs playing this treatment today. :( Agree, one of very few partnerships playing this method.Seems it was more or less obsolete already when I started playing some 30 years ago, eventhough my memory can be faulty. :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 I also use 3♦/♥/♠ as nat and forcing, but I am suposed to have 6 of them when doing so, actually having only 5 will be much more useful now you say it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 What's this new convention called "natural?" Is there a suggested defense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 What's this new convention called "natural?" Is there a suggested defense? penaty doubles and fishbein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 The theory is that it's hard to look for slam intelligently with a one-suited major hand and no shortness (for example 5332, 6322, etc). Obviously you can transfer and then make some quantitative type bid, or transfer at the four level followed by keycard, etc. But sometimes you want to have a sensible cuebidding auction, and you just can't. Using 3M as natural/forcing solves both these problems as well as letting you right-side 4M when you have a hand that just plays better by responder. We play that: (1) Opener bids 3NT with only doubleton in the suit named. At this point responder can pass, raise the notrump bid as a quantitative raise (5332), correct to 4M, or make any other bid as a cuebid setting the major as trump. (2) With three or more card support, opener is supposed to cuebid over 3M. This agrees the major suit. I know this is a real complicated convention and probably should be restricted to national-level events. But somehow the convention committee hasn't gotten to it yet. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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