I like this bid :)

[jillybean]

Here's a hand I was kibitzing

 

Dealer: East Vul: EW Scoring: IMP ♠ AKT2 ♥ T2 ♦ K5 ♣ AKQ83

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     Pass  1♣

 Pass  1♠    Pass  2NT

 

 

I'm usualy afraid partner will pass so I leap to game with this type of hand and risk missing a better contract. I assume 3nt would be corrected to 4♠?

[pbleighton]

I don't understand the auction. Are you North or South?

 

Peter

[BebopKid]

That is interesting.

 

I have one partner who always bids over 1C no matter what because we play clubs as short as 2. He says we agree that I can pass it and he won't pass it.

 

He might pass me there.

 

Otherwise, great bid.

[BebopKid]

I don't understand the auction. Are you North or South?

 

Peter

That is the south hand.

[Echognome]

I kibbed this hand. The 2NT bid certainly didn't get the approval of most of the kibitzers.

[han]

I hate this bid, I think that it is a serious mistake.

[bid_em_up]

I hate this bid, I think that it is a serious mistake.

And I think know you are mistaken. Let me guess, you believe 2N is passable also, don't you?

[vuroth]

I'm not sure I get it.

 

1♣ - 1X - 2NT is 18-19 balanced in SAYC. It's a game invite, no more.

 

1♣ - 1♠ - 4♠ - what is this? Well, it doesn't make sense to be preemptive, since opponents are silent. So doesn't it have to be 19+, with 4+♠ in hand?

 

The second option seems more descriptive to me. If partner thinks you're making a shutout bid, then maybe that's something worth discussing, but I can't see how it could be one.

 

If nothing else, the basic rule is "support with support", isn't it?

[skjaeran]

I hate this bid, I think that it is a serious mistake.

And I think you are mistaken.

Well, if the 2NT rebid is agreed to show a normal 18-19NT, I must say I strongly agree with Han. If it systemically shows support that's quite another kettle of fish.

[bid_em_up]

I hate this bid, I think that it is a serious mistake.

And I think you are mistaken.

Well, if the 2NT rebid is agreed to show a normal 18-19NT, I must say I strongly agree with Han. If it systemically shows support that's quite another kettle of fish.

Again, without knowing the partnership and/or its agreements, it is a seriously flaw to offer an opinion on this.

 

Since I happen to be responder, I know for a fact that we cannot pass 2N after a response to 1C, which makes 2N just fine. It is not going all pass.

 

That said, I acknowledge this is a non-standard treatment.

[kenrexford]

I would like the bid also. Very great call. It allows me to lead my hearts and set 2NT when 4♠ makes five.

[Echognome]

Again, without knowing the partnership and/or its agreements, it is a seriously flaw to offer an opinion on this.

 

Since I happen to be responder, I know for a fact that we cannot pass 2N after a response to 1C, which makes 2N just fine. It is not going all pass.

 

That said, I acknowledge this is a non-standard treatment.

Perhaps it should have been alerted then.

 

As I know for a fact that it wasn't. :)

[pbleighton]

Again, without knowing the partnership and/or its agreements, it is a seriously flaw to offer an opinion on this.

 

Since I happen to be responder, I know for a fact that we cannot pass 2N after a response to 1C, which makes 2N just fine. It is not going all pass.

 

If a call has other than a standard meaning the OP should say so. Otherwise, the practice in the Forums is to assume standard bidding.

 

What do the three bids in this auction mean?

 

Peter

[jillybean]

There's some risk partner will pass 2nt but with opps silent isnt that very unlikely?

1m:1M 4M takes up a lot of room!

[jtfanclub]

I would like the bid also. Very great call. It allows me to lead my hearts and set 2NT when 4♠ makes five.

I think it's much more fun when they end up in 6NT-1 instead of 6♠=. Is there some reason North isn't allowed to simply bid 6NT with a 1NT opener type of hand?

[kenrexford]

There's some risk partner will pass 2nt but with opps silent isnt that very unlikely?

1m:1M 4M takes up a lot of room!

I'd rather bid a misleading 4♣ (which is close to correct) than a passable and misleading 2NT.

 

What space are you gaining, though? Space necessary to work out that you really do have a fit?

[sceptic]

I am wondering why 1m 1M 4M is not used showing 19 hcp unless 2NT has a special meaning with a fit and no stopper in one suit

[sceptic]

Again, without knowing the partnership and/or its agreements, it is a seriously flaw to offer an opinion on this

 

that has never stopped anyone in the past :)

[bid_em_up]

Again, without knowing the partnership and/or its agreements, it is a seriously flaw to offer an opinion on this.

 

Since I happen to be responder, I know for a fact that we cannot pass 2N after a response to 1C, which makes 2N just fine. It is not going all pass.

 

If a call has other than a standard meaning the OP should say so. Otherwise, the practice in the Forums is to assume standard bidding.

 

What do the three bids in this auction mean?

 

Peter

The OP isn't/wasn't aware of our partnership agreements.

 

1♣=2+

1♠=6+, 4+♠

2N=balanced 18-19

 

Anything other than what you would reasonably expect?

[bid_em_up]

I would like the bid also.  Very great call.  It allows me to lead my hearts and set 2NT when 4♠ makes five.

I think it's much more fun when they end up in 6NT-1 instead of 6♠=. Is there some reason North isn't allowed to simply bid 6NT with a 1NT opener type of hand?

Not going to happen.

[Echognome]

The OP isn't/wasn't aware of our partnership agreements.

 

1♣=2+

1♠=6+, 4+♠

2N=balanced 18-19

 

Anything other than what you would reasonably expect?

Yes! The fact that 2N is forcing is definitely alertable.

[vuroth]

There's some risk partner will pass 2nt but with opps silent isnt that very unlikely?

1m:1M 4M takes up a lot of room!

I don't think that opponents being silent influences this much. Partner should pass on up to ~7 points, and should raise to 3NT on a stronger, semi-balanced hand. Furthermore, won't partner undervalue his distributional strength, believing you don't have a fit in spades?

 

1m-1M-4M DOES take up a lot of room. In SAYC, which I guess wasn't in use here, it strikes me as very descriptive. I wonder if there's a standard way to show a hand this strong, with 4 card support, while staying at a lower level.

 

V

[bid_em_up]

The OP isn't/wasn't aware of our partnership agreements.

 

1♣=2+

1♠=6+, 4+♠

2N=balanced 18-19

 

Anything other than what you would reasonably expect?

Yes! The fact that 2N is forcing is definitely alertable.

Oh please.

[Echognome]

Oh please.

What do you mean "Oh Please!"? Do you think for one minute that if 2NT is forcing it is not alertable? That is a very important concern. One of the issues which people have with the 2NT bid as made is that it is non-forcing. The second issue here is that you said that your 1♣ opening was 2+. That was not alerted either. I think you need to give some serious consideration to your disclosure.

[bid_em_up]

Oh please.

What do you mean "Oh Please!"? Do you think for one minute that if 2NT is forcing it is not alertable? That is a very important concern. One of the issues which people have with the 2NT bid as made is that it is non-forcing. The second issue here is that you said that your 1♣ opening was 2+. That was not alerted either. I think you need to give some serious consideration to your disclosure.

1) It wasn't my disclosure, so don't bitch at me. However, I will bring it to my partners attention. Again. He should be alerting 1C, and I always do (or at least try to). I have asked him to do it before, and I cannot reach from Raleigh NC to NYC to press the alert button for him. It is beyond my control. He is also Egyptian, and does not play in ACBL land, and I am not certain that an alert is required where he comes from. (I am not saying an alert for a 2 card one club opening is not required there, just that I do not know). I can tell you that I ALWAYS announce that 1C openings can be two card suits whenever we commence play with new opponents, which is the best I can do to compensate for his failure to alert it.

 

2) In no way, shape, form or fashion is the 2N bid alertable. You are dreaming if you believe otherwise. Since when do 6+18 not equal game? How can it not be considered forcing? Since when is 1S and a 2N rebid alertable? Since when is 2N not natural in this sense? It is not conventional. It has no special meaning. If you think 2N is alertable, then I think you are nuts. The 2N rebid is always forcing in any standard meaning, it is responders decision to bid or pass over it. Responder can still pass the 2N response, however, the odds of doing so are effectively nil since they have made a response to 1C. This is no different than you or anybody else plays it.

 

3) I attempt to disclose everything I am supposed to. It is your opinion that the 2N bid is alertable. If you prove to me otherwise, I will be happy to alert it, but so far you have failed to do so. Until you do, it is just that. Your opinion. Nothing more.

 

4) Your last statement verges on the edge of insinuating that I am being unethical and I do not appreciate it at all. I, myself, try to make any and all information available to whoever asks for it. I believe you owe me an apology.

 

If you have problems with my partners disclosure, please take it up with him. I've tried numerous times and you can tell how much success I have had. Short of refusing to play with him (and thats not going to happen), I cannot force him to alert 1C. I agree it is alertable, at least in ACBL land, and I do my best to alert it. And as stated above, it is always announced in advanced so the opponents at least have some warning of it ahead of time.