Exploring slam after stayman

[sathyab]

This hand came up in the Santa Clara regional last weekend and gave us a fair amount of trouble, as I suspect it might have a lot of other people. I'd like to know how others might handle this pair of hands.

 

Your partner opens a 15-17 1NT and bids 2h in response to your stayman inquiry. How do you proceed with xx AKxx Kx KQJTx ?

[pclayton]

With many partners I play 4♦ is a balanced slam try. I think I'd be making another call even if pard signed however.

[cherdano]

You need agreements here. I have seen the following two agreements pretty often:

1. 3♠ is a slam try in hearts (4m would be a splinter)

2. 3♠ is a slam try in hearts with shortness, 4♣ is RKC for clubs, 4♦ is a balanced slam try.

 

Either way, I would take the shortest route to RKCB, i.e. 4♣ playing 2., and 3♠ followed by 4N playing 1.

[skjaeran]

I'd raise to 3♥, a balanced slam try in our methods. Jumps in a new suit are all splinters for us here. And yes, we don't invite game with support here (unless responder is a passed hand), we either pass or bid game.

[Guest Jlall]

I would bid 4D which I usually play as keycard. Can't imagine not driving this to slam opposite 2+Q, but I do have 4C balanced slam try in hearts available.

[jdonn]

Yeah I would bid whatever I use as keycard. Most experts I know of use 4♣ (with 4♦ as balanced slam try) although Justin swears to me it's better to reverse those.

[sathyab]

Ok, say you make an RKC bid with 4c. Partner bids 4nt showing 2 key cards with the Queen. Now what ? Aren't you worried partner may have no Diamond control ? What if he held AKQx QJxx xx Axx ! Not that your partner would be that unkind to you, but I was to mine (:-

 

I'd have liked to pose this problem as an interactive bidding problem, offering choices a La Larry Cohen's RealDeal CD's or the BBO Master hand series. I wish I could have hinted that real problem would come after the key card response with respect to Diamond control without tipping you off to bid 6c.

 

But couldn't you still bid 6c after partner's 4nt response realizing that only real danger is when he has no Diamond control ? If pd had the Ace of Diamonds instead of the Ace of clubs, you still make 6c. Unfortunatley the format of scoring being MP it's really tough to give up on 6h.

 

My LHO was dealt a Diamond honor, which was the only picture card in her hand and she led a Diamond. It was good lead but one that a lot of others would make, I thought. But surprsingly 6h off 1 was only about 16% MP in a fairly strong field (it was the finals of the two-day All Western Pairs).

[Guest Jlall]

Yeah I would bid whatever I use as keycard. Most experts I know of use 4♣ (with 4♦ as balanced slam try) although Justin swears to me it's better to reverse those.

In the last year or so its gone from about 100 % of people playing 4C as keycard to like 75 %. In a few years or so I believe it will be mainstream to reverse 4C and 4D since it's definitely better.

[cherdano]

If your partner had bid 6♣, I am sure you would have turned up with ♠K and ♦A :)

Everyone here who said he would bid RKC would have bid 6♥ over 2+Q as you did.

 

Anyway, you were in a 6♥ that is clearly better than 50% (♦A on or no ♦ lead minus possibly needing a tame heart split), you did well but got unlucky.

Of course you could try to solve this by cue-bidding but with a side suit that might be running and the scoring being matchpoints I really don't want to help them with their lead.

[Guest Jlall]

Ok, say you make an RKC bid with 4c. Partner bids 4nt showing 2 key cards with the Queen. Now what ? Aren't you worried partner may have no Diamond control ? What if he held AKQx QJxx xx Axx ! Not that your partner would be that unkind to you, but I was to mine (:-

 

I'd have liked to pose this problem as an interactive bidding problem, offering choices a La Larry Cohen's RealDeal CD's or the BBO Master hand series. I wish I could have hinted that real problem would come after the key card response with respect to Diamond control without tipping you off to bid 6c.

 

But couldn't you still bid 6c after partner's 4nt response realizing that only real danger is when he has no Diamond control ? If pd had the Ace of Diamonds instead of the Ace of clubs, you still make 6c. Unfortunatley the format of scoring being MP it's really tough to give up on 6h.

 

My LHO was dealt a Diamond honor, which was the only picture card in her hand and she led a Diamond. It was good lead but one that a lot of others would make, I thought. But surprsingly 6h off 1 was only about 16% MP in a fairly strong field (it was the finals of the two-day All Western Pairs).

What about if partner has AJx QJxx QJx Axx or similar and 6H makes on a spade lead but 6C does not? Or if partner has AQx QJxx QJx Axx and 6C wrongsides the contract on a spade lead, or if partner has Kxx QJxx AJxx Ax and 6C wrongsides the contract, etc. Or if partner happens to have no SPADE control and 6H makes on a non spade lead but 6C does not. It's not clear even at imps that we should bid 6C though we probably should for the subset of hands where partner has no HJ and we need 3-2 trumps to make 6H, but at MP I would not even consider playing in clubs.

[P_Marlowe]

This hand came up in the Santa Clara regional last weekend and gave us a fair amount of trouble, as I suspect it might have a lot of other people. I'd like to know how others might handle this pair of hands.

 

Your partner opens a 15-17 1NT and bids 2h in response to your stayman inquiry. How do you proceed with xx AKxx Kx KQJTx ?

A fairly common agreement is to use 3 of the other

mayor as a slam try, in this case this would be 3S.

Partner should make a cuebid, a 3NT bid by opener

should be serious, i.e. showing a slam suitable hand

with lots of controls.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Cascade]

Yeah I would bid whatever I use as keycard. Most experts I know of use 4♣ (with 4♦ as balanced slam try) although Justin swears to me it's better to reverse those.

What do you use 3♠ for?

[ArtK78]

3 of the unbid major is a slam try with a short suit.

[Stephen Tu]

The hand is also an interesting play & defense problem as well.

 

On the diamond lead, (you have Tx of diamonds opposite Kx), what do you play? MP.

[Guest Jlall]

The hand is also an interesting play & defense problem as well.

 

On the diamond lead, (you have Tx of diamonds opposite Kx), what do you play? MP.

Quick duck seems clear

[mike777]

This hand came up in the Santa Clara regional last weekend and gave us a fair amount of trouble, as I suspect it might have a lot of other people. I'd like to know how others might handle this pair of hands.

 

Your partner opens a 15-17 1NT and bids 2h in response to your stayman inquiry. How do you proceed with xx AKxx Kx KQJTx ?

4s kickback for hearts.

 

If they have two spades off the top so be it.

[mikeh]

I would also bid 3♠, balanced slam try, altho the more I think about it, the more I like 3 OM to be unbalanced: if only because opener can reject with his typical promoted 14 count or quacky 15 count without letting the opps in on the secret of his shape: opener presumably enquires only with some interest. I also like reversing the 4♣/♦ bids, altho the only times I've played this method, it was the old-fashioned way (presumably popular because of the lingering attachment to G****r). If asking for keycards, our hand must be strong enough to play 5major, and using 4♣ balanced slam try gives us one more bid below 4Major for opener to use to express interest.

 

As it is, however, using 4♦ as the balanced slam try would probably keep us out of slam... LHO may well double with AJx(x)(x)(x) :) Better lucky than good, I say.

[mike777]

I play 3s here as forcing with 4 hearts, slam try and invites cue bids. That is an option.

[kenrexford]

For me, 3OM is a slam try.

 

After 3♠, partner will have three cues available -- 3NT, 4♣, and 4♦. 3NT is "serious," but in context a "serious" hand is one that has a spade control, as a spade control cannot be shown otherwise, at least below 4♥. (Obviously, 3OM works a lot better when the agreed major is spades.)

 

So, for all times that it matters, partner will bid 3NT after 3OM; otherwise I sign off.

 

Then I can ask for Aces.

[Cascade]

The hand is also an interesting play & defense problem as well.

 

On the diamond lead, (you have Tx of diamonds opposite Kx), what do you play? MP.

Quick duck seems clear

Its not clear exactly what you mean but playing quickly to try and not give away the position seems a little sharp to me.

 

Duck in tempo would be appropriate.

 

"A player may not attempt to mislead an opponent by means of remark or gesture, through the haste or hesitancy of a call or play (as in hesitating before playing a singleton), or by the manner in which the call or play is made."

[Guest Jlall]

What? We are declarer, we are not giving UI to partner. If you play fast they are more likely to believe you do not have a problem (ie if they have AJ they will think you have the queen). This is not the same as hesitating to pretend like we DO have a problem. If you are able to figure out quickly that ducking is more likely to conceal that you had a play problem, more power to you, you don't have to think for a while so that they know you have a problem.

[Cascade]

The quote is from Law 73 D2. It does not mention UI. It is about deceiving the opponents through your tempo not informing your partner.

 

To play slowly to suggest you have a problem when you don't would be a problem and I can't see why it would be less of a problem to play quickly to suggest you have no problem when in fact you do have a problem. Especially when the quick play is designed solely to convey that message.

[Gerben42]

I have never played either 3♠, 4♣ or 4♦ as balanced slam try, nor have I heard of these methods.

 

I like:

 

1N - 2♣ - 2♠ - 3♥ = slam try in ♠

1N - 2♣ - 2♥ - 2♠ = slam try with 4 cards in either major

 

A jump in a new suit = splinter.

 

Playing a weak NT I don't have a bid to invite without 4-card major so I use:

 

1N - 2♣ - 2♥ - 2♠ = slam try with ♥ / invite without 4M

1N - 2♣ - 2♥ - 3♠ = slam try with 4♠

[ArcLight]

Why is it advantageous to switch the meanings of 4♣ and 4♦?

 

(keycard and balanced slam try)

[lowerline]

Yeah I would bid whatever I use as keycard. Most experts I know of use 4♣ (with 4♦ as balanced slam try) although Justin swears to me it's better to reverse those.

In the last year or so its gone from about 100 % of people playing 4C as keycard to like 75 %. In a few years or so I believe it will be mainstream to reverse 4C and 4D since it's definitely better.

I believe that 3♠ as a slamtry with shortness, both 4♣ and 4♦ as balanced slamtries with a cue in the bid suit and 4♠ as RKC for ♥ is even better...

 

Steven