Under bid by me ?

[geofspa]

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=st4haqt643dqjcqj3]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

East passed

 

Sitting South I was dealt the above hand, I considered it to be too strong for a pre-emptive 2♥, but not strong enough to open 1♥, so I passed.

 

West passed,

 

and my partner opened 1NT (15 - 17).

 

Bidding to me - I bid 4♦ (transfer to hearts) and passed my partners 4♥, all pass.

 

My partner proceeded to make 12 tricks and could have made 13 if he had tried the heart finesse.

 

Later, when discussing the boards, my partner was questioning whether I could have made more of a move towards slam by using a Jacoby transfer followed by a jump to 4♥, a mild slam try according to our agreements.

 

Did I under bid (considering this was pairs scoring) ?

 

Looking forward to your views.

[ralph23]

I would open your hand. Yes, it's too good for one bid, and maybe arguably too weak for the other, but when debating the merits of two "deficient" opening bids, it generally should be a mistake to solve your dilemma by selecting Pass.

 

If you later make a slam try by the Jacoby-jump trick, partner must still consider your bid in light of your first call..which was Pass.

 

With 3 small hearts, is he continuing past game? I think slam's a lucky make, isn't it?

[Fluffy]

East passed

 

Sitting South I was dealt the above hand, I considered it to be too strong for a pre-emptive 2♥, but not strong enough to open 1♥, so I passed.

There is no in between range, you have a Q more than needed for many people to open at the one level, but anyway, if you don't open, you are denying having a decent 6 card suit with some strenght.

 

 

Given said that, your hand doesn't look very good for a slam try.

[jillybean]

I guess its a matter of style, this is a clear 1♥ opener for me.

[pbleighton]

Yes, don't pass this hand. There's no such thing IMO as a hand which is too strong for a two bid but not strong enough for a one bid.

 

Peter

[bid_em_up]

1) Personally, I don't believe there is an "in-between" option for this hand. Either you open it 1H or you open it 2H, but you must open it. Pass isn't an option.

 

Had you opened it either 1H or 2H, is the problem solved? (I would devalue the doubleton QJ♦ and open it 2H, but thats just my preference)

 

2) Given that you chose to pass the hand, the proper way to bid it is to start with a transfer to 2H, followed by a raise to 4H. While I don't agree that this would be a "mild slam try" in this context (you are a passed hand, after all), you certainly show a hand of this type and partner holding a hand rich in controls for his 1N opener along with a heart fit might continue on.

[pclayton]

I would have opened. While this is a very mangy 12, you do have a very nice suit.

 

I never thought that a hand could make a slam try as a passed hand opposite a 1N opener, but I can see passing a flawed preempt, and wanting to invite.

[cherdano]

No way this is good enough for a slam try. What was partner's hand?

[geofspa]

[hv=d=e&v=n&n=saq6h872da54cak82&w=sk973h9dt98ct7654&e=sj852hkj5dk7632c9&s=st4haqt643dqjcqj3]399|300|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

So here is the full deal ... guess we were lucky to make the 12 with everything sitting right.

 

Thinking about things in the light of hindsight I could open this 2!h in 2nd seat (we use very sound 2nd seat weak 2's) and would definitely open 2!h without a hint of delay in 3rd

[mikeh]

I disagree with those who say that there is never a hand that is 'too strong' for a 2-bid and too weak for a one bid, but I do, strongly, agree that this is not such a hand.

 

This is a 1♥ opening bid. I'd love another control, but I have a sixth heart, including the 10, and my Queens are supported by Jacks, so even tho they are not good holdings, they are not as bad as most short suit minor honour holdings.. and I have NO rebid problem.

 

As for how to deal with partner's 15-17 1N.... picture a perfect 16 count: Axxx Jx AKxx A10x.. we'd sure want to be in slam then.. and he might hold Axx J9x Ax AKxxx.. now this is a 5 or 7 hand on a spade lead, and cold for 6 on any other lead.

 

So we can try for slam (assuming we have the tools) by a simple 2-level transfer followed by 4♥ over an acceptance. We are protected, to some degree, by our original pass, so partner won't take us for a power invite...even tho that comes closest to describing our hand. That is the problem, of course, partner will think we have a strange hand...not a 1♥ opening bid :rolleyes: So I don't think we'd get there anyway because he couldn't picture us holding good trump and he has poor ones in context, even if he holds the K (which I know he didn't).

[jdonn]

I disagree with those who say that there is never a hand that is 'too strong' for a 2-bid and too weak for a one bid

Wow I am very surprised to see you say this. I learned there was no such hand a long time ago, and have never changed my mind about it.

 

Of course I may well pass some such hands because they aren't preemptive in nature or have other flaws, like maybe Kxx Axxxxx Qx Jx, but that's different.

[mikeh]

I disagree with those who say that there is never a hand that is 'too strong' for a 2-bid and too weak for a one bid

Wow I am very surprised to see you say this. I learned there was no such hand a long time ago, and have never changed my mind about it.

 

Of course I may well pass some such hands because they aren't preemptive in nature or have other flaws, like maybe Kxx Axxxxx Qx Jx, but that's different.

I may have misphrased my answer, or misunderstood the point, but I agree with you entirely.... there are hands that are wrong for a weak 2, even tho point counters will say they are in range, and the same is true, to a lesser degree, with 1-bids. I suspect, from your post, that we open, preempt or pass the same hands.

[whereagles]

I would have opened 1♥, but your auction seems pretty normal.

 

Just nag pard for not having made 13 tricks :D