Big number

[han]

[hv=d=e&v=b&s=saxxxhakj10xdaxcxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP

(1C) - 1H - (Dbl) - p

(2C) - ??

[/hv]

 

Do you agree with 1H?

 

How do you rate pass, double and 2S? (and other?)

[Guest Jlall]

definitely like 1H, I hate to say it but I would rate X as 100 and pass and 2S as 0

[cherdano]

I wouldn't consider anything but double but will refrain from ratings...

[jdonn]

I don't think pass is as bad as they seem to but I still much prefer double, maybe my rating would be 75-25. 2♠ gets 0 for sure.

[pclayton]

I know the hand of course.

 

I would have doubled the first round, but a second double is reasonable, even though you would make the same call with 4=5=1=3, a 3=6=1=3 or some 3=5=2=3's as well.

[kenrexford]

Double for me as well.

 

In thinking about this, however, it seems that I would give a different answer if my minors were reversed and if the opening and rebid were diamonds instead of clubs. In that event, the late double sounds like a club-heart two-suiter. Here, 2♦ handles that hand, and I don't think we need a way to distinguish 6-4 from 5-5 more than a general big-hand double.

[han]

I also doubled. The person in my seat bid 2S, which I thought was really weird. My teammate told me that he would have passed with my hand, perhaps influenced by the fact that we got a lousy result on this board. I needed a reality check.

[mike777]

I was wondering why pass was not a reasonable option.

1) we are vul

2) pard could not raise

3) rho has clubs

4) lho has spades.

5) we only have 2D.

[jtfanclub]

I play light power X's, so I'd X here and bid 1♥ over 1♦. Only 16 hcp, but lots of controls and power.

 

I have a feeling that experts don't.

[Free]

1♥ ok, now Dbl.

[Impact]

1H = normal automatic

 

X now = normal

 

If I now bid 2S now, my hand is extreme shape: at least 6H & 5S with lots of playing strength as I am forcing partner who has shown nothing to give simple preference at the 3-level! I am at least 2 cards shy of that and my S woefully inadequate....

 

regards

[paulg]

I'd overcall 1♥ initially on the basis that I am doubling on the next round.

 

Now that LHO has shown spades (presumably?), I double as I have extra values. 2♠ would never occur to me.

 

Paul

[Fluffy]

I agree with everyone, I'd rate pass as 10-15%.

[mikeh]

My age must be showing.

 

1♥ seems clear, but I am a passer here, not a doubler, altho I'd far sooner double than bid 2♠.

 

I suppose it comes down to expectations, but exactly what am I hoping for from a partner who passed the negative double? While the opps are limited only by the hcp I hold in my hand.

 

I do think it is close, because I surely do have a nice hand, but I would pass.

 

Ok, I lose 6....or maybe I win 6 or more.

 

Edit: I just finished a simulation, which wasn't easy to set up/analyze, since on many of the hands on which 2nd round action wins, partner has a reasonably good chance of protecting, and one has to make allowances for that.

 

As it was, to my disappointment, but not to my great surprise, doubling was the percentage call: where it mattered, by about 2 to 1 over pass... provided that you are leaving partner in diamonds when he bids it... diamonds is the best spot a great many times. Spades, even when best on a 4-4 look difficult to reach: partner, with 4=2 in the majors, will be bidding 2♥, not 2♠.

[pclayton]

What are the allowable shapes for a double in the OP's sequence?

[bid_em_up]

I also doubled. The person in my seat bid 2S, which I thought was really weird. My teammate told me that he would have passed with my hand, perhaps influenced by the fact that we got a lousy result on this board. I needed a reality check.

The person in your seat defends worse than he bids. Allowing 3C to make was ridiculous. Don't sweat it too much.

 

Personally, I'm with Mikeh. I think pass is the better choice of calls at the 2nd opportunity, and I prefer 2H to double now. 2S is just plain crazy. I'd rather treat this holding as containing a 6th heart, than to imply a 3-5-4-1 hand (or 3-5-3-2 or 3-6-3-1). I would think that X now, should imply longer diamonds than spades (or at least equal length in the two) since we have already heard a negative X on our left. This hand resembles nothing of the sort and the fact that we have additional values does nothing to change that distortion.

 

I expect if it goes 2C p p, partner should be able to listen to the auction and realize that I have the best hand at the table, and balance accordingly.

 

I would have preferred X initially to put both majors in play immediately than to X now as well. I'm also perfectly willing to treat this as a 17 hcp hand and correct 1D or 2D to 2H.

 

As usual, I evidently am in the minority though.

[cherdano]

What are the allowable shapes for a double in the OP's sequence?

4522 3622 3532 4531 3541 3631, ..., some with voids but those need good defense

2542 could be but not so likely.

Really double just says you have at most 2 clubs, a lot of extras, and no extreme shape.

[matmat]

i don't really have a problem with 1H, x or x,x or 1h,p...

 

for some reason i dislike making takeout doubles on bad shapes, so i'd probably 1h,p, but at this point it may be influenced by the topic title and result =)

 

where are roman jump overcalls when you need them?

[skjaeran]

Completely agree with overcalling 1♥ - making a t/o double would never touch my mind.

 

I'd double to show strenght now.

[Guest Jlall]

btw if I didn't X I like bidding 2H a lot more than both pass and 2S, but again I think X is clear glad mikeh's simulation showed that :)