Echognome Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 It seems to me that of Dbl, 2H and 3C, 2H is the best choice. I can see doubling if I had Hxx in spades but I won't do it with a small doubleton. 3C is gross, the fact that we likely don't have a diamond stopper makes forcing to game a huge overbid. The available lies after passing are worse than a direct 2H imo. So bidding your longest suit is gross, yet supporting with a 2 bagger is not. We don't have a diamond stop, I can see that too. And when partner raises to the heart game and trumps are 5-1, that's going to be fun too! I don't object to 2♥ that much. You've got to make some call. I think calling bidding your longest suit gross, well call me crazy then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I think forcing to game is gross and you know I meant that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted September 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Wow, when I created this I almost didn't even include double as a choice, then I tossed it in at the last second just to be comprehensive and make sure no one would complain about a lack of choices. I'm also surprised there are no votes for 2NT - I completely hate it, I just thought some people might do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 So what happened Josh, and what is your opinion? Just discussed pass followed by 3D with Arend. If it is a possible sequence then it should probably show a hand like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted September 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I would and did pass, and I don't like 2♥ at all but I know a lot of people would do it. And yeah I think following with 3♦ after partner reopens with double or 2♥ 'should' show this hand. If partner passes it out I'm probably quite happy and expect +200 or +300 vs having no game most of the time, though having game is possible. Partner actually reopened with 2♥, and I bid 4♥ since I was with Aaron (don't want to make him field a bid like 3♦), which made easily though 3NT is a bit better. To me, you either just overbid 3♣ or you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I'm also surprised there are no votes for 2NT - I completely hate it, I just thought some people might do it. There is one now. Not that I like it or that I think it will solve the problem. I hate everything. There should have been a choice for abstain. If I got this problem at the table then I would be sick. But seeing as I'm the only vote for my choice, I must be a sick animal anyway. On a side note, I'd like to see Hannie's example in Challenge the Champs. East dealer; South bids diamonds; both sides vul. Maybe 10% of the expert pairs in the world would reach the club slam. I'd like to see how Meckstroth & Rodwell do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted September 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I'm also surprised there are no votes for 2NT - I completely hate it, I just thought some people might do it. There is one now. Not that I like it or that I think it will solve the problem. I hate everything. There should have been a choice for abstain. If I got this problem at the table then I would be sick. But seeing as I'm the only vote for my choice, I must be a sick animal anyway. On a side note, I'd like to see Hannie's example in Challenge the Champs. East dealer; South bids diamonds; both sides vul. Maybe 10% of the expert pairs in the world would reach the club slam. I'd like to see how Meckstroth & Rodwell do it. I don't really think any would reach it after 2♥ or almost none, but a lot would if this hand started with 3♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchTsch Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I don't like pass with healthy 10 points. So for me options are 2♥, 3♣ and double.2♥ is a slight underbid with some shape misinformation.3♣ is a slight overbid with correct shape information.Double seems the most flexible bid, I suppose partner shouldn't jump to 4♠. So i'll usually double. 3♣ on a good day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Lebensohl is your friend (apparently only Haralds? ;) ), just pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Lebensohl is your friend (apparently only Haralds? ;) ), just pass. Yes, playing Lebensohl makes pass more attractive. I voted 3♣ though. 2♥ is maybe better. I don't see how dbl can be better than 2♥, and it could certainly be worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchTsch Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I don't see how dbl can be better than 2♥, and it could certainly be worse. On the other hand, I don't see how double can be worse than 2♥, and it could certainly be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulven Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I'm a passer as well. Bidding runs serious risk of getting overboard.To prove I'm a passer, I'll give a hand from a couple of weeks ago. We played a practise match against the South African team for Shanghai. All vul. 1S - (2H) - ? -KxxKT97xxKQ8x I actually passed, as did my counterpart at the other table. How did this end? North reopened with X and we both responded 3H. After 4C I decided we'd never find out if slam is good (depends on H location) and just raised to 5C. Doubled on the way out and I redoubled. Other table continued 4H after 4C and rested in 5C after 4S. Contract made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchTsch Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 To prove I'm a passer, I'll give a hand from a couple of weeks ago. There is a big difference between this two hands.There you had a void in partners suit and here you have Ax. That makes the situation totally different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 3C is gross It's gross only if you're too hcp-dogmatic to realize it may solve all your problems for the price of a slight overbid. Heck, if pard has a max with singleton diamond, your hand might even be worth a SLAM TRY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 OK, I guess I am hcp-dogmatic sycophant because I still think it is a gross overbid. Xxxx in their suit is not a reason to upgrade imo. I realized later that at the table I would probably not consider anything but pass and pass was also my first thought when reading the hand. However, when thinking carefully about all the options I still think that there is a lot to be said for a direct 2H. Pass followed by 2H (over partner's likely double) seems just too pessimistic, while the delayed 3D risks getting too high too often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 I would and did pass, and I don't like 2♥ at all but I know a lot of people would do it. And yeah I think following with 3♦ after partner reopens with double or 2♥ 'should' show this hand. If partner passes it out I'm probably quite happy and expect +200 or +300 vs having no game most of the time, though having game is possible. Partner actually reopened with 2♥, and I bid 4♥ since I was with Aaron (don't want to make him field a bid like 3♦), which made easily though 3NT is a bit better. To me, you either just overbid 3♣ or you don't. For what its worth, I'm with Josh on this one: I think that there are two reasonable choices: 1. Make a slight overbid and bid an immediate 3♣2. Make a slight underbid and and pass I don't find 2♥ appealing. (I think that you are both underbidding and misrepresenting your trump support) I would (probably) pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 Pass is not an underbid. Pass is an "I won't misdescribe my hand yet I may still survive" bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 Xxxx in their suit is not a reason to upgrade imo. why not? Chances are good pard has a singleton, which would make and all our side's hcp working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 There shouldn't be a break between an immediate 3 clubs and a pass followed by 3 clubs when partner inevitably doubles. I'd say that it's on the immediate 3 club side, but I could be convinced otherwise. I must admit, 2 hearts never would have occurred to me. If the opponent hadn't interfered, were you planning to bid 2 hearts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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