2/1 - please bid this

[ArcLight]

IMPS, unfavorable (using 2/1 not SAYC, and not some home grown bids - please use "standard" not that there is one :)

 

In 2nd seat pard opens 1NT (15-17)

 

how do you bid this:

♠ Q 9 8 x x

♥ A Q 9 x x x

♦ K x

♣ void

[han]

This depends on methods. If you have a method to show 5-6 in a gameforcing hand then obviously you use that. If not you have two alternatives:

 

1) Show a gameforcing hand with 5-5 in the majors.

 

2) Bid Stayman followed by 3S (4-5 in the majors, GF) and if partner signs off bid 4H.

 

I would choose (1), especially if you can show your club shortness later.

[kenrexford]

Which of the fifteen versions of "standard" are we using today?

 

If I get to guess, I'll use one of the fifteen versions I like. I'll bid 3♦. 55+ in the majors, invitational+.

[pbleighton]

*Standard* in my area is 3S, which is GF, 5-5 or better in the majors, which is what I bid.

 

Not playing that, I transfer to hearts, then bid 3S, if pd bids 3NT I bid 4H.

 

Peter

[skjaeran]

*Standard* in my area is 3S, which is GF, 5-5 or better in the majors, which is what I bid.

 

Not playing that, I transfer to hearts, then bid 3S,

That would be a splinter in my methods.

 

I'd transfer to ♠ and jump to 4♥ (that's NOT a splinter to me :D ).

[awm]

It seems to me that this hand has pretty good slam prospects opposite a 1NT opening.

 

People are suggesting various ways to show both majors and get to game, but I'm not convinced that sequences involving "correcting" 3NT to four of a major will get us to slam when it's right.

 

I'd try something like 2♦ (transfer) followed by 3♠ and then 4♦ (basically patterning out).

[Fluffy]

I would bid 2♥+3♥ showing a strong 5-5 in the majors, with some luck I'll be able to show my club shortness later.

 

Also Hearts are a good trump unless partner has xx, transfer+splinter seems a good alternative.

[pclayton]

Standard for me is to start with 2♣. I'll get very excited over 2 major.

 

Over the expected 2♦, 3♦ is pick a major, I'm at least 5-5. From there I can make a move.

[P_Marlowe]

IMPS, unfavorable (using 2/1 not SAYC, and not some home grown bids - please use "standard" not that there is one :D

 

In 2nd seat pard opens 1NT (15-17)

 

how do you bid this:

♠ Q 9 8 x x

♥ A Q 9 x x x

♦ K x

♣ void

Hi,

 

your question has nothing to do with SAYC or 2/1.

 

Transfer to spades, intending to 3H should show

a game forcing hand with at least 5-5 in the mayors.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[pbleighton]

Transfer to spades, intending to 3H should show

a game forcing hand with at least 5-5 in the mayors.

 

Depends on agreements, for many this shows at least 5-4.

 

Peter

[han]

ok, so now that we all agree that there is no "standard" I might as well give my auction with Arend:

 

1NT - 2H

2S - 3D (5-5 or better in the majors, GF)

3X - 4D (slam interest, patterning out)

[ralph23]

*Standard* in my area is 3S, which is GF, 5-5 or better in the majors, which is what I bid.

 

Not playing that, I transfer to hearts, then bid 3S, if pd bids 3NT I bid 4H.

 

Peter

That's what we play as "standard" as do many in our circle, but I can't remember the last time it came up....

[mike777]

*Standard* in my area is 3S, which is GF, 5-5 or better in the majors, which is what I bid.

 

Not playing that, I transfer to hearts, then bid 3S, if pd bids 3NT I bid 4H.

 

Peter

That's what we play as "standard" as do many in our circle, but I can't remember the last time it came up....

that would be a splinter for me.

I guess i would just bid stayman and over 2d rebid 3s showing 4 spades and 5hearts in an attempt to play 4H from strong side.

Over 3nt I would rebid 4H. Partner will think I have 6H and 4 spades I guess.

In any event if this is my worst bidding problem, we would never lose. :rolleyes:

[Guest Jlall]

ok, so now that we all agree that there is no "standard" I might as well give my auction with Arend:

 

1NT - 2H

2S - 3D (5-5 or better in the majors, GF)

3X - 4D (slam interest, patterning out)

This is another auction where you can use kokish's 3rd suit shortness rule which works better than patterning out btw.

[han]

Thanks Justin, I can see why.

[CSGibson]

This is another auction where you can use kokish's 3rd suit shortness rule which works better than patterning out btw.

What's Kokish's third suit shortness rule?

[y66]

The Shortness Rule: In a game-forcing auction, when one partner has shown at least nine cards in two suits and a primary trump fit has been clearly established, a new suit shows shortness in the named suit and slam interest.

 

Source: Eric Kokish in Modern American Bidding

[TheoKole]

Bid 2 ♦ transfering to ♥, then bid 3 ♠ over the expected 2 ♥ bid, if partner bids 3NT over 3 ♠, bid 4 ♥.

 

Partner should have a good idea about your shape.

 

If partner super accepts in hearts or supports spades, I would cue bid 5 ♣ to see if he can cue bid 5 ♦.

 

If so then go then bid 6 of the major otherwise bid close off in 5.

 

Cheers,

 

Theo

[cnszsun]

This is another auction where you can use kokish's 3rd suit shortness rule which works better than patterning out btw.

What's Kokish's third suit shortness rule?

Following is a more typical example to explain this:

 

1S-2C

2H-2S

 

2C is game force and 2S shows real fit. Now, by default, 3C and 3D by opener is pattern-out and implies shortness in unbid minor (with 5422 he will bid 2nt).

But, if kokish 3rd suit shortness applies, then opener bid 3C/3D to show shortness in the bid suit.

 

To be honest, i don't know the advantages of this method. Could anybody explain?

[TylerE]

Being able to show shortness below game is never bad.

[awm]

The advantage comes in when opener has ten cards in two suits. If the third suit is a fragment, then when opener holds 6-4-x-x or 5-5-x-x his next bid just shows the tenth major suit card. This is problematic because finding the shortage is often important to slam bidding (and just became a lot harder) and because opener is making pretty frequent use of a higher bid (i.e. 1♠-2♣-2♥-2♠-3♠) instead of the cheaper minor suit bid. In general the location of the singleton/void is probably more important than the tenth card in the two suits where opener has shown nine cards already.

[DCal]

I am going to bid stayman. Assuming opener bids two diamonds, I am going to jump to 6 hearts. It's probably wrong, and more than likely too aggressive for IMPS, but I don't see any other way to get to a probable slam. I would assume that partner, sitting on three spades and two hearts, might guess to "correct" to 6 spades, but what the heck. I like my chances in the slam.

Obviously, if partner responds with a major, I'll be a little more circumspect.