ralph23 Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 ♠5♥AT94♦AKT7♣9865 It doesn't satisfy the Rule of 20.It does have 3 Quick Tricks. Would you open 1m, and if so, which minor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 pass easy unless my system requires I open all 11 pt hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 open easy unless system requires I pass all 11 counts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 1♦ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 I hate to open on 11 counts but this one is mandatory 1♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 1D, this hand is as good as 30+% of 12 counts. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 1D, this hand is as good as 30+% of 12 counts. Peter But perhaps that just means we should be passing at least 30% of 12 counts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 This is an obvious opening hand for me, except in 4th seat, where I pass.1st and 2nd seat it's a systemic 1♣ for me. In 3rd seat I'd open this 1♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 There are several factors to consider. Mps: we strain to open because bidding first is usually to our advantage we are also protected, to some degree, by the fact that partner should not push to close games at mps, so the risk of getting too high is less than at imps, especially red at imps Imps: white, I'd open for the same reasons as mps. Imps: red: whether I open depends on my 3rd seat methods. I like to play that P P 1♠ P 1N is semi-forcing: opener is required to rebid if he has a sound opening bid. This protects us on this hand, where, if 1N is 'standard', we are in real trouble after a 3rd seat 1♠. If we do not play this method, then I reluctantly open... As for what to open, I would expect the 1♦ call to be unanimous amongst 5 card majorites, no matter which minor they open on 3244 / 2344 / 4=1=4=4 hands. Next question: what are we planning to rebid of partner bids 1♠, either directly or after a ♥ overcall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 I know I'm in a small minority, especially amongst experts, but most of the time I pass this hand (although several circumstances could lead me to open it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 But perhaps that just means we should be passing at least 30% of 12 counts! In these type of questions I assume standard bidding practice in my answers, unless I specify differently. Do you think it's standard to pass 30% of 12 counts? I know a few people whi do it, but not many. Perhaps it's different where you play - I'm in the northeast U.S., and on BBO (mostly ACBL games). I don't see a lot of 12 counts passed when I watch world champs on Vugraph, either. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 And I thought we were living in a bid-em-up society! Back when Charles Goren was in his prime, everyone would open this hand. 11 points in aces and kings and 2 for the singleton spade. This is not even a close call. Now, when everyone bids everything that moves, many posters are saying that they might not open this hand! To me, this is an absolutely clear-cut opening 1♦ call. I have a good lead for my opening bid, I have 3 defensive tricks, 3 quick tricks, and a full Goren 13 point opener. I even have good spot cards! This hand is better than a lot of the "full" opening bids that I have seen. I open some 11 counts and pass a lot of 11 counts. This one is not close. Quite frankly, I would be surprised if anyone actually passed this hand in real life (unless they played very sound opening bids). Fourth seat is an entirely different issue. The singleton spade argues against opening the hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 Would you open 1m, and if so, which minor? Pass 1st, 2nd, and 4th. I don't like my rebids over the expected 1 spade response. 1NT? Yuck. 2♣? Double yuck. If my singleton was any other suit, I'd open. Edited to add: Back when Charles Goren was in his prime, everyone would open this hand. 11 points in aces and kings and 2 for the singleton spade. This is not even a close call. Now, when everyone bids everything that moves, many posters are saying that they might not open this hand! Back when Charles Goren was in his prime, if you didn't open this hand, it would probably get passed out. This hand has difficulties with opening but no trouble at all in responding or overcalling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 I only open in 3rd (1♦). Sub-minimum 1444's = pass for me. I open 10 and 11 counts frequently, but not balanced and hardly ever three-suiters with short spades. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 Pass. In case I have to open, 1D. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 For me this is an easy opening hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 I will open ANY hand containing an A-K, A. I've had mixed results, and I don't think either style is right or wrong. With the subject hand its an automatic opener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 I will open ANY hand containing an A-K, A. I've had mixed results, and I don't think either style is right or wrong. With the subject hand its an automatic opener. Yes, If your system requries you to open with any AKA, then yes open.Yes, if your system requires you to open any 11 pt hand with 3 Quick tricks.Yes, if your system requires you to open any 11 pt hand. If your system allows you to pass, then I think you have an easy pass. That means partner knows you pass with this hand type. I just reread BWS opening requirements...they seem very unclear with this hand type. I assume that means we are allowed to pass or BWS should make it clearer if this is a clear opener. ;) " BWS-2001 is a mostly natural system based on an artificial strong two-club opening, weak two-bids in the other suits, strong notrump (with Stayman and transfers), and five-card majors (with a semi-forcing one-notrump response). Opening requirements are neither extremely sound nor light. The minimum requirement to open with a long minor is about half a point higher than with a long major. A Q x x x A x x J x x x x is a minimum one-spade opening bid as dealer with neither side vulnerable."http://www.bridgeworld.com/default.asp?d=b...bwsall.html#IVA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 Quite obvious opening for me, except if forced to play Roth-Stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph23 Posted August 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 (edited) Yes, if your system requires you to open any 11 pt hand. Well, this isn't exactly ANY 11-point hand, is it? Surely there's a world of difference between the posted hand and a lot (perhaps the majority of) 11 point hands with 4441 distribution .... isn't there? Compare e.g. to KQ984AT96Q742 Edited August 27, 2007 by ralph23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 I only open in 3rd (1♦). Sub-minimum 1444's = pass for me. I open 10 and 11 counts frequently, but not balanced and hardly ever three-suiters with short spades. Roland Roland:I wonder whether or not the fact that the stiff is in spades, causing rebid problems, is a major determining factor for you on the hand. DHL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 I think the right answers are: No, if your system requires you to pass with all 11-point 1444 hands.Yes, if your system allows you to open some 11-counts 1444 hands when they look particularly good. ;) This hand with A-AK and excellent spots is close to the best possible 1-4-4-4 11-count. So I would open it. I don't open all A-AK hands like Phil does. Oh, and I really like to open 1D with this and I really prefer to rebid 1NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 Well I think neither side has presented much if any detailed convincing argument why this should be an opening bid or not in first or second seat. ;)If opening or not opening puts you at some advantage fair enough but I would like see some facts or least a more laid out argument. :)If opening or not opening this hand makes it better if we are trying to beat the hand, fair enough, why?If opening or not opening this hand may limit overtricks at MP when we are on defense, fair enough, why? If opening or not opening this hand type takes pressure off of partner or makes it easier for partner, fair enough, why?Does opening or not opening this hand type put your partner at an advantage or disavantage in the bidding?, why> If opening or not opening this hand type means we are more likely to win the partscore battle or be able to stop short of game or bid a game otherwise, fair enough, but why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 I only open in 3rd (1♦). Sub-minimum 1444's = pass for me. I open 10 and 11 counts frequently, but not balanced and hardly ever three-suiters with short spades. Roland Roland:I wonder whether or not the fact that the stiff is in spades, causing rebid problems, is a major determining factor for you on the hand. DHL That's my point. I would likely open the hand with 4441, 4144 and 4414. I don't like my options with 1444 if, as expected, the auction starts 1♦ - 1♠. - 1NT rebid in my book shows 12-14 and a balanced hand. I have neither.- 2♣ rebid shows 5-4 in the minors. I know that some play the latter as only at least 4-4. I don't unless I have full value for my opening. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 For me the 1NT rebid shows 11-13 balanced. I have both. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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