gwnn Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 1♣-p-1♦-X1♠-X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 penalty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 penalty Agree with this, but not based on a bunch of spade values, rather good club values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 penalty Agree with this, but not based on a bunch of spade values, rather good club values. I use it for points but not heart length, which in reality almost always turns out to be club values... I don't know that really qualifies as a penalty or not, but I expect partner to leave it in a goodly portion of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Hmm to me it would say 4 spades and constructive values, and say nothing at all about clubs, same as 1♣ X 1♠ X. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Hmm to me it would say 4 spades and constructive values, and say nothing at all about clubs, same as 1♣ X 1♠ X. Nah, with 5 spades and some values you would have overcalled 1♠. At least Justin and Arend would. Besides, p has promised 4 spades this time. So 3 spades are enough for this penalty double. OTOH I don't see why you necesarily need clubs for this double. A 3-3-4-3 would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 penalty Do you mean 4 spades and some values, or showing a penalty pass of 1♣ ready to double everything in sight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Shows spades - has the opponent really got spades? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Hmm to me it would say 4 spades and constructive values, and say nothing at all about clubs, same as 1♣ X 1♠ X. I find this auction very different. For starters, partner has absolutely promised 4 spades on this auction, unlike over (1♣) - X. Second, what is the hand with a club stack supposed to do here? Bid 2♣ natural? I think partner has shown he's got the majors, so my double should be based on club values. I don't see how I could be 3=3=4=3 for this auction and have a double. To me that hand shape is a 1NT or 2NT bid. I'm think more along the lines of a 2=3=3=5 hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 penalty with at least 4♠ or 3♠ and extra values (clubs values probably) its to avoid psych and to find 4-4♠ fit despite the 4-1 break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 Hmm to me it would say 4 spades and constructive values, and say nothing at all about clubs, same as 1♣ X 1♠ X. I find this auction very different. For starters, partner has absolutely promised 4 spades on this auction, unlike over (1♣) - X. Second, what is the hand with a club stack supposed to do here? Bid 2♣ natural? I don't see why that hand feels the need to bid at all, even with fair values. But I admit I had not really thought about this auction before. I can see the logic behind double not promising 4 spades and am tending to agree with it, mostly so you can nail the opponents and because with 4 you will always end up bidding 2♠ anyway, so why not do it right away. I am glad this thread came up, it made me think more about a situation I hadn't considered enough before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 Spades and values, so I can't vote. If you have hearts, bid them. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 Hammer :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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