mike777 Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Assuming you would overcall with a 4 card suit at the one level NV, just how weak overall and in the overcall suit will you be? KJxx..x....xxxx...xxxx One spade here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Don't ask me any more -- I'm convinced that this style is not my cup of tea. That being said, many years ago, my parents taught me that you needed Q10+ to overcall. Maybe that makes sense for the bid-on-any-excuse folks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph23 Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Only if I'm trying to get rid of my partner. I overcall on 4 card suits at the one level, but this suit and this hand both suck. I need for both of them not to suck. Some might consider KJ43 to be a "non-suck" but I'm not one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Some might consider KJ43 to be a "non-suck" but I'm not one of them. I'd say that KJxx is so much of a "non-suck" that it blows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 I would overcall KQJx xx xxxx xxx lol, soooo sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 One spade here? Hell yes. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted August 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 I will ask again since I only got one response so far..how weak overall and how poor a suit would you overcall a 4 card suit at the one level NV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 This has been discussed many times...anyway, I need a nice 4-card suit AND about light takeout double strength to overcall with a 4-card suit. When you overcall a 4-card suit you are actually more likely to play in that suit, as partner is more likely to have support, and when he raises, the opponents are more likely to pass it out (as they each have half a trump more on average) or even double you. So I think 4-card overcalls without some playing strength are just anti-percentage. (My rough guideline is if partner makes a mixed raise to the 3-level and the opponents double me, I want to have a fighting chance at making.) But then, I don't mind playing with weirdos who overcall 1S over 1C with KJ9x xx xxx Kxxx white on red.bbb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Hi everyone I used a K10xx standard with a range of 3-13HCP 'taken' directly from an Italian bridge system book(Blue Team?) several decades ago. We also played 'off shape' doubles in the Italian style. A 4 card overcall should be make on the same type hand when Vul. or non vul.playing my current style. It tends to be a good suit and an opening bid that has a 'flaw' for making a takeout double. If you play random 4+ overcalls in 4 card suits, that KJxx fills the bill, however, it is not my current style. Regards, Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTired Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 my style for 4-card overcalls at the 1 level (never at the 2 level) is good suit and almost opener. "Good suit" is ... oh... KQ10x, QJ10x, AKxx. Something that if partner raises on xxx or leads the suit, it won't be embarrassing. Opps rarely dbl a 1-level overcall, so you are not at big risk. So AKxx xx xxx Kxxx is about a min 1S over 1m overcall for me. Advancer always assumes you have 5-cards and may preemptive jump raise with 4-card support. Justin, KQJx and out. Is that really your style or are you joking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 After a 1♣ opening 1♠ seems reasonable (since you take away a level of bidding space). After a 1♥ opening however it's just foolish imo (needs to be disciplined). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reisig Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 When choosing a style of 1 level overcalls - keep in mind the negative inference (not overcalling). If you overcall with KQJx and out (my style) - when you fail to bid ..it means something too! These overcalls are used for competing and lead direction. If partner "knows" that you had enough value to bid...but didn't..that has meaning! So when choosing a lead - is not looking for a hidden miracle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 I very much like overcalls on 4 card suits. The thought of calling 1♠ on this hand would never cross my head. WAY too weak. The idea of preempting 2♠ did cross my mind. However, I don't think that i would ever (actually) perpetrate such a bid. Free raises a valuable point about the amount of bidding space that one will consume. Here is a representative example of a (minimum) hand where I would give serious consideration to a white versus red overcall of the opponents 1♣ opening. ♠ KT82♥ 753♦ KJT2♣ 32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 I HAVE preempted with such a hand. It worked. Still I felt funny afterwards... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossoneri Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Playing the overcall structure...no...you need at least 6 HCP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodwintr Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Two spades (over one club) on KQJx and out seems more to the point than one spade: if you are just preempting, you might as well get full value. (Who knows, you may cause penalty doubles to come back into the game!) In all seriousness, if you bid one spade on some of the hands suggested here (KJxx x xxxx xxxx, for example), how in the world can you manage a constructive auction when you really have something? Or do we assume the hand must belong to the opponents, and our bidding is obstructive/lead-directing, just because they open the bidding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Normally my overcalls are lead directional and not on the lightish side, but I do frequently overcalls good 4 card suits, even at the expense of a shaky five card minor. I want to get my major (especially spades) into play quickly. In terms of rough high card points, at least QT9x or better, I prefer of course KQT9 or better. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Justin, KQJx and out. Is that really your style or are you joking? Depends on partner, opps, field, etc, but yes I would often do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcLight Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Justin, KQJx and out. Is that really your style or are you joking? Depends on partner, opps, field, etc, but yes I would often do this. Justin, I assume you would also bid 1♠ on a much better hand? Doesn't such a wide ranging overcall range cause problems for your pard? I don't know much about what is used outside the USA. I see mention of the Italian style where an overcall shows 3-13 HCP. Do all 3 pairs on the Italian team use this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Notice that the person who quoted the 3-13 range said "several decades ago". I can't imagine that there are top Italian pairs that still use this range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 I don't know much about what is used outside the USA. I see mention of teh Italian style where an overcall shows 3-13 HCP. Do all 3 pairs on the Italian team use this? I seriously doubt any of the top Italian pairs today do this. Yes I would bid 1S on a much better hand, and it causes less problems than you might think it would. Say the auction goes (1C)-1S-(2D) and partner has a 10 count with 4 spades. He won't be thinking about game because the opponents have opened and made a 2/1. No, nobody ever psyches a 2/1 in this auction, so don't give me the "shouldn't partner trust you and not the opponents" thing. It's silly not to listen to their bidding. The biggest problems come on auctions like 1H-(1S)-4H when the 4H bidder might bid it on a wide range. Then partner has no idea who has what and it's a very tough spot for him. Luckily people usually go through a bid like 2S (limit+) rather than jumping so partner has room to figure it out. As opposed to that you gain a lot, mainly being a pest to the opps (this is why this type of bid is much better against weak opps, say at the club), you get a lead director in, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcLight Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 As opposed to that you gain a lot, mainly being a pest to the opps (this is why this type of bid is much better against weak opps, say at the club), you get a lead director in, etc. Like you need help against weak opps? :) Would you be less inclined to do this against experts (with an expert pard) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Assuming you would overcall with a 4 card suit at the one level NV, just how weak overall and in the overcall suit will you be? KJxx..x....xxxx...xxxx One spade here? KJxx for the suit is OK, but I need at least 10 useful HCP to compensate for the fact that my suit is missing a card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 I don't know much about what is used outside the USA. I see mention of teh Italian style where an overcall shows 3-13 HCP. Do all 3 pairs on the Italian team use this? I seriously doubt any of the top Italian pairs today do this. Yes I would bid 1S on a much better hand, and it causes less problems than you might think it would. Say the auction goes (1C)-1S-(2D) and partner has a 10 count with 4 spades. He won't be thinking about game because the opponents have opened and made a 2/1. No, nobody ever psyches a 2/1 in this auction, so don't give me the "shouldn't partner trust you and not the opponents" thing. It's silly not to listen to their bidding. The biggest problems come on auctions like 1H-(1S)-4H when the 4H bidder might bid it on a wide range. Then partner has no idea who has what and it's a very tough spot for him. Luckily people usually go through a bid like 2S (limit+) rather than jumping so partner has room to figure it out. As opposed to that you gain a lot, mainly being a pest to the opps (this is why this type of bid is much better against weak opps, say at the club), you get a lead director in, etc. The biggest problem is when his idiot partner decides he has something and doubles :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.