Can I reverse?

[jillybean]

Dealer: South Vul: EW Scoring: IMP ♠ 6 ♥ T52 ♦ AKT2 ♣ AKJ75

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     -     1♣

 1♥    1♠    Pass  ?

  

 

2♦ now? I hate to pass. :) The ♥xxx are bad and Im not sure how to evaluate the stiff ♠

[P_Marlowe]

2D.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[hrothgar]

I would have opened 1♦

[cherdano]

2♣.

[sceptic]

I thought this was in your 1nt range opener Jilly :) why did you open 1 club :)

[ralph23]

Too light to reverse by my standards. Not everyone plays it as "strong" but we do.

 

You can solve this problem by your opening bid, however; don't open 1♣ with 4♦ and 5♣ and a hand too light to reverse. Save yourself the agony of having to make this decision and anticipate the problem (you know that p will bid 1M :) ).

 

Open 1♦. I.e. bid like you had 4-4 or 5-4 or 5-5. Now you can easily rebid 2♣. You will rarely get into much trouble with this mild lie, and partners are used to it, anyhow.

[kenrexford]

2♣. I don't dislike being required to do this.

[skjaeran]

You're a little light for a reverse here. Just rebid 2♣ - that's not a bad thing. :P

[blackshoe]

I'm with the 1♦ openers. :P

[neilkaz]

This offensively oriented and very pure 15 HCP hand with a bonus Ten in my fine 4 card suit is just good enough for me to open 1♣ with the plan of reversing 2♦.

K&R hand evaluator rates hands based on offensive merit, in general (sort of like Zars ?!) and says this is worth 18.95 ! I'll plan to reverse on this hand and consider it a min. and note that I have methods to stop at 3 of either minor if PD is min. Without some way to stop at 3m, reversing this hand will often get overboard.

For those who use Zars, how many Zars is this hand worth ?

 

Now...consider the bidding so far. Has the opp 1♥ overcall helped your hand ? I don't think so when you hold 3 small. Has PD's 1♠ bid (5+ for me after a 1♥ o/c) helped your hand ? I don't think so.

 

So..this hand could be a missfit and note that advancer passed, and may not have much H support for overcaller, so PD could have some cards in ♥. There's a good chance of a missfit here and 3 ♥ losers or two losers and a ruff off the top.

It looks like the bidding so far had downgraded you hand a bit so fall back on the option to rebid a very fine 5 card ♣ suit.

 

2♣ for me, noting that I consider myself max for that action.

 

Once again, had there been to ♥ o/c I'd reverse 2♦ and consider this a min for that action, but here the fact that PD has 5+ ♠ and I think we have at least a couple ♥ losers pushes me to caution.

 

Note that if I had a scattered 15 HCP with a mediocre 5 card ♣ suit and 4 decent ♦'s I'd have opened the hand 1♦ and rebid 2♣ since said hand is not a reverse and I don't want to rebid mediocre 5 card ♣ suits. I also don't want to rebid 1NT over 1♠ with a stiff in PD's suit if I can avoid it, nor with 15 HCP (playing 15-17 NT)

 

Just my opinions..and not expecting much agreement as some just count HCP and length when they bid and don't consider suit strengths or things like having all 15 HCP in your two long suits.. neilkaz ..

[neilkaz]

I'm with the 1♦ openers. :P

Can you ever convince PD that you have 5 good ♣ here after opening 1♦? I find that I cannot and then we have issues in part score contracts and have even played the wrong minor game or slam.

 

So...for me..

 

♠ x

♥ ATx

♦ KQxx

♣ K9xxx

 

Open 1♦ as I am opening and rebidding ♣ with a trashy 5 card suit. I don't want to rebid 1NT with a stiff after 1♠, and with my ace of ♥, a stiff and 3 card support, I'll raise 1♥ to 2. If PD takes a pref to ♦ in the auction after my 2♣ rebid, at least I have two nice honors in ♦.

 

Now give me

 

♠ x

♥ ATx

♦ Jxxx

♣ AKJxx

 

I'll open 1♣ and raise 1♥ to 2 and rebid 2♣ with my fine 5 carder after 1♠. If I open 1♦ and rebid 2♣ and PD takes a pref to ♦ I may be quite unhappy if PD has 3 cards opposite my Jxxx. If I am passed out in 2♣ and PD has xx, I am not that unhappy due to my fine suit. If PD competes to 3♣ on xxx, once again, I have a fine suit for the 5-3 fit.

 

Note that I really don't care for Walsh responses so PD is not bidding 1M after 1♣ with a 5 card ♦ suit and 4 cards in the major. I also open 1C rather than 1♦ with all 44 m hands except those with a stiff ♠ (since I don't want to rebid 1NT with a stiff).

 

This is not current mainstream American, but it is my style.

 

Interesting stuff in this thread and an interesting constrast in styles.

 

.. neilkaz ..

[cherdano]

I hate opening this hand 1♦. I really dislike reversing this hand if partner's suit is spades. I don't like rebidding 1♣-1x-2♣. I am fine reversing with this hand if partner's suit is hearts.

 

So in other words, I would open 1♣, planning to reverse if partner shows hearts, and rebidding 2♣ if partner shows spades.

[neilkaz]

I hate opening this hand 1♦. I really dislike reversing this hand if partner's suit is spades. I don't like rebidding 1♣-1x-2♣. I am fine reversing with this hand if partner's suit is hearts.

 

So in other words, I would open 1♣, planning to reverse if partner shows hearts, and rebidding 2♣ if partner shows spades.

Arend, this is certainly a very reasonable action, and it is nice to be dealt a hand with options like this. By not reversing after 1♠ you nicely follow the general guideline to be cautious in the face of a likely missfit.

[Guest Jlall]

definitely dont reverse.

 

This is in the 1 % of 4-5 hands that I would open 1D with since I refuse to bid 1C-2C, and my usual procedure of rebidding 1N with a stiff will not work with a good 15 count and the honor structure is terrible to consider opening 1N, thus...

[helene_t]

What would a double show? A fourcard in the unbid suit, or 3-card support? In both cases you have it. If double is penalty, least of evil is 2♥ I think. Reverse is problematic because p may take preference to clubs with a doubleton while you have a 5-3 fit in hearts. and if you then bid 3♥ then you're showing a GF hand. (And also this hand is simply not strong enough for a reverse, you don't want p to bid 3N with his 4432 and 8 HCPs).

 

Having read Justin's post I'm becoming more sympathic to a 1♦ opening but in practice it would not have occurred to me to open 1♦.

[mike777]

It seems opening 1D and rebidding 2clubs should work out ok very often.

You are well within your hcp range and you are only one d short.

Rebidding a new suit even hints at more than minumum values.

[jillybean]

What would a double show? A fourcard in the unbid suit, or 3-card support? In both cases you have it. If double is penalty, least of evil is 2♥ I think. Reverse is problematic because p may take preference to clubs with a doubleton while you have a 5-3 fit in hearts. and if you then bid 3♥ then you're showing a GF hand. (And also this hand is simply not strong enough for a reverse, you don't want p to bid 3N with his 4432 and 8 HCPs).

My p bid ♠

[Fluffy]

Remembering an old post, wich calculated many boards at double dummy, I think worse distributions towards game were 22(4-5), (2-3)44 and next (1-3)(4-5), I think this hand is worth a reverse if you have a major, but game with minors is not quite good. That's why I would rather open 1♦.

 

Specially afetr partner bids your singleton, hand is even worse, now I would for sure bid 2♣ wich shows only 5+ to me (and could have 4 hearts).

[skjaeran]

What would a double show?

You're normally not allowed to double your partner.

I know it could be nice on occasion.... :D

[jillybean]

Thanks for the responses, I especially like fluffys analysis of the xx45 hands.

I would have been better opening 1nt :D

 

I did reverse and it was a disaster, not sure that I am completely to blame though.

 

[hv=d=s&v=e&n=sakjt72h987dcq832&s=s6ht52dakt2cakj75]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     -     1♣

 1♥    1♠    Pass  2♦

 Pass  3♠    Pass  4♠

 Pass  Pass  Dbl   Pass

 Pass  RDbl  Pass  Pass

 Pass  

[helene_t]

Oh misread the auction, sr.

 

I'll rebid 2♣ then, partner bidding in my singleton devaluates the hand from a maximum 2♣ rebid to a slightly-above-average 2♣ rebid.

 

I would prefer a cuebid to the 3♠ bid but 3♠ is not terrible. Of course if 2♠ is forcing (which it probably is), that's even better..

[neilkaz]

2♠ from PD is forcing in normal methods and save room to find the best game.

PD may not have known that or may have wanted to show his good ♠ and GF.

 

I really don't care for your raise to 4♠ with a stiff 6 in support !! Just rebid 4♣ and let PD know that you have no support. Perhaps 5♣ may be better ?

 

At least after 4♣ PD won't XX if he has any functional brain cells.

 

Looking at all 4 hands, it really seems hard to stay out of game with your side's cards and I suspect there may have been quite a few 4♠x or 5♣.

 

PD should smell a rat after the X and not XX, without solid ♠ and at least a good as a hand as he holds. The X just has to say..."I've got Qxxx(x) behind you and one or two of those x's are likely the 9 or 8)

 

.. neilkaz ..

[hrothgar]

I really don't care for your raise to 4♠ with a stiff 6 in support !! Just rebid 4♣ and let PD know that you have no support. Perhaps 5♣ may be better ?

Responder jumped to 3♠ over 2♦

 

A stiff 6 is more than sufficient as support.

[neilkaz]

I really don't care for your raise to 4♠ with a stiff 6 in support !! Just rebid 4♣ and let PD know that you have no support. Perhaps 5♣ may be better ?

Responder jumped to 3♠ over 2♦

 

A stiff 6 is more than sufficient as support.

Maybe opposite you or I who would hold AKQxxx or better but obviously not here :D .

 

Anyhow what does the jump opposite a reverse show ? To me it has to be at least a solid 6 bagger since the reverser is often stiff and a solid 6 bagger certainly is useful for slams in one of reverser's suits as well.

 

Just my opinion .. neilkaz ..

[cherdano]

I think both your bidding is reasonable, just the redouble seems ill-advised.

 

For those who think a stiff isn't good enough to raise on this auction, I suggest they let us a know of a better strain once the auction is forced to game.