Hand Evaluation

[ArcLight]

MP, all white

Pard is a very strong player (for real!!)

 

You hold:

♠K J x x x

♥ Q

♦ K x x

♣Q T x x

 

Pard deals and opens 1♦

 

1♦ - p - 1♠ - (2♥)

2♠ - (3♦)* - ?

 

* I asked what 3♦ was and was told its Natural, and shows a heart fit.

What do you bid at this point?

 

If my reasoning is faulty, please tell me.

1. I have a wasted QH.

2. The Club suit is defensive

3. I have no idea what pards ♦are. My King under the overcaller is surely good (unless its ruffed in a ♥ contract, when LHO has a stiff or void).

 

What do you do? 3♠? 4♠? Pass? X?

 

 

***4. I forgot we were using Support doubles! :) So 2♠ should show 4.

Given that pard has 4♠, how would that change your bididng.

I think Bid 3♠ with a 5-4 fit.

 

Please dont factor #4 into your first resposne, to the first section.

Just pretend that you are unsure if pard has 3 or 4 spades.

 

Then see if it changes when you know he has 4

[mcphee]

4S which I believe will have a play. Should I feel a bit cowardly I would dble 3D as a game try in S. The problem with bidding 3S is partner is going to pass when many times game will make.

[bhall]

A lot of partnerships play "last train" game tries - 3♥ here, since the opps left you room to bid it. With that agreement, 3♠ would only be competitive, while Double would suggest defending.

 

If partner's raise shows 4 ♠, I would just jump to game. He can't hold "wasted" ♥ cards because of my ♥Q. And he might undervalue his ♦ holding after the 3♦ bid by his LHO.

[neilkaz]

This is a very close choice between a game try of 3♥ or just a blast to 4♠ to me knowing PD has 4♠ and therefore I can ruff ♥ in my hand without critically tapping our combined hands.

 

One has to plan ahead, and if you make the game try and the opps go to 4♥ and PD fails to bid game , will you double or carry on to 4♠ ? This is MP and all White and +300 won't do so well if you are cold for +420.

 

The weird 3♦ bid gives me cause for some worry. What if LHO leads his stiff to RHO's ace and gets a ruff. That would like sinkly 4♠ unless PD is really max, and may sink it anyhow.

 

If I make a 3♥ game try, LHO can double it to suggest a game try to RHO, but if I double 3♦, what will PD think ? If I double 3♦, LHO has even more options, 3♥ competing, 4♥ game, and xx which would pass the buck to PD as to whether to bid the ♥ game or not.

 

I don't care for my wasted Q of ♥ and I fear a D ruff, so I'll just make a 3♥ generic or last train game try here. If the opps bid 4♥ over 3♠ here, I don't have much choice after having made a game try but to double them and hope they go set.

 

Hmm..maybe a direct blast to 4♠ game is best ? If I knew my opps liked to push to 5 over 4's, I'd jump to game since I really doubt they'll score well in 5♥x.

 

Hmm..not so sure here..take your choice of game try or game bid .. neilkaz ..

[ralph23]

3♥ as a game try.

 

You have room to bid that suit (♥), so maximal overcall doubles aren't in effect, and a X of 3♦ should therefore be penalty oriented, but they aren't going to play 3♦ doubled anyhow.

 

Let's get partner's opinion. 4♠ may be the winning call but IMHO it's too unilateral to just bid it up here.

 

NB - 3♠ is "merely competitive" and partner will pass it.

[BillHiggin]

4♠

I have gone down before!

This is based on a reasonable but aggressive partner. If he is in love with very light openings, then more caution is appropriate.

[Fluffy]

Both Double and ♥ invite, I don't know wich one means what, normally double would e a balanced hand, so I beleive 3♥is teh correct one with this cards.

[skjaeran]

This is very close between bidding game and making an invite.

Since partner is very strong, I'll ask him to evaluate his hand and stand by his decision. So I'll bid 3♥. At IMPs I'd just bid game myself.

[Guest Jlall]

I would just bid game.

[Apollo81]

4♠

[lowerline]

MP, all white

Pard is a very strong player (for real!!)

 

You hold:

♠K J x x x

♥ Q

♦ K x x

♣Q T x x

 

Pard deals and opens 1♦

 

1♦ - p - 1♠ - (2♥)

2♠ - (3♦)* - ?

 

* I asked what 3♦ was and was told its Natural, and shows a heart fit.

What do you bid at this point?

 

If my reasoning is faulty, please tell me.

1. I have a wasted QH.

2. The Club suit is defensive

3. I have no idea what pards ♦are.  My King under the overcaller is surely good (unless its ruffed in a ♥ contract, when LHO has a stiff or void).

 

What do you do?  3♠?  4♠?  Pass?  X?

 

 

***4. I forgot we were using Support doubles! :(  So 2♠ should show 4.

Given that pard has 4♠, how would that change your bididng. 

I think Bid 3♠ with a 5-4 fit.

 

Please dont factor #4 into your first resposne, to the first section.

Just pretend that you are unsure if pard has 3 or 4 spades.

 

Then see if it changes when you know he has 4

3♠. Don't care if 2♠ shows 3 or 4. Hoping they will bid 4♥. I have a bad feeling about 4♠ (but I have been wrong before ;)

 

Steven

[pclayton]

Because its MPs, I'll invite game. I'm more concerned about pard's wastage in hearts than my Q. My club cards look dubious too.

[Walddk]

4♠. I am the one who is looking at a singleton heart, the fifth spade and ♦K. 3♥ as a game try is unlikely to put partner in a better position than I am.

 

Roland

[jdonn]

I would bid game, but if I were going to invite then 3♥ is a bad bid IMO, it tells partner nothing useful. Why not take the chance to double 3♦ then bid 3♠ over 3♥, that is a much better description of the values in the hand (fitting diamonds and short hearts) and will help partner judge very accurately.

[ulven]

3H is enough without aces.

 

As for Josh's argument against 3H, it's all and well if the auction proceeds according to plan (X then 3S). But, if LHO decides to take a stab on 4H with a distributional hand, we not so good placed.

[jdonn]

3H is enough without aces.

 

As for Josh's argument against 3H, it's all and well if the auction proceeds according to plan (X then 3S). But, if LHO decides to take a stab on 4H with a distributional hand, we not so good placed.

Yes you are, you have an auto 4♠ then since the chance of partner having heart wastage is greatly reduced and the opponents might even be making, you can't afford to defend when either side might make game.

 

But I still think it's worth forcing to game.

[pclayton]

3H is enough without aces.

 

As for Josh's argument against 3H, it's all and well if the auction proceeds according to plan (X then 3S). But, if LHO decides to take a stab on 4H with a distributional hand, we not so good placed.

Yes you are, you have an auto 4♠ then since the chance of partner having heart wastage is greatly reduced and the opponents might even be making, you can't afford to defend when either side might make game.

 

But I still think it's worth forcing to game.

I can understand bidding 4♠ as a 2 way shot - either to make, or as a save against 4♥.

 

But they are far from bidding game, and there's no guarantee they will. I'd rather find out if our hands fit. Our heart shortage is great, but only pard can tell if there's wastage or not.

 

We can always blink and bid 4♠ later if necessary.

[pbleighton]

4S. When in doubt bid game.

 

Peter

[ulven]

3H is enough without aces.

 

As for Josh's argument against 3H, it's all and well if the auction proceeds according to plan (X then 3S). But, if LHO decides to take a stab on 4H with a distributional hand, we not so good placed.

Yes you are, you have an auto 4♠ then since the chance of partner having heart wastage is greatly reduced and the opponents might even be making, you can't afford to defend when either side might make game.

 

But I still think it's worth forcing to game.

Well, we disagree, but what else is new ;-)

If you bid 3H and next hand bids 4H, partner should be well situated to X if called for or bid 4S. If partner passes instead, I'm passing too.

 

Do keep in mind that in close decisions it's good to check your control ratio and let that be a deciding factor.

 

With 10-11 hcp, we're expected to hold 3 controls (A+K). We have 2.

Chosing caution will serve you best. Bid your hand and let partner bid his.

[ulven]

4S. When in doubt bid game.

 

Peter

This is somewhat misunderstood advice. It's correct if you have a high control ratio.

[jdonn]

Well, we disagree, but what else is new ;-)

No kidding B)

 

I don't understand. Doesn't everything you said about if the opponents bid 4♥ apply if we double 3♦ equally as well as if we bid 3♥? Except that partner will be more accurate since the double is descriptive but the 3♥ bid is vague?

[ulven]

I don't understand. Doesn't everything you said about if the opponents bid 4♥ apply if we double 3♦ equally as well as if we bid 3♥? Except that partner will be more accurate since the double is descriptive but the 3♥ bid is vague?

Maybe there's no difference for you, but for me X of 3D doesn't invite 4S per se. It encourages a 3S-bid but doesn't set up a force, meaning that we can sell out to 3H undoubled.

[jdonn]

I don't understand. Doesn't everything you said about if the opponents bid 4♥ apply if we double 3♦ equally as well as if we bid 3♥? Except that partner will be more accurate since the double is descriptive but the 3♥ bid is vague?

Maybe there's no difference for you, but for me X of 3D doesn't invite 4S per se. It encourages a 3S-bid but doesn't set up a force, meaning that we can sell out to 3H undoubled.

Ok it seems to me like I would never double 3♦ without at least a game invitation. We will just say everyone's judgment is stupendous and it's simply a mild disagreement about the meaning of a bid that probably has never come up for either of us :)

[Edmunte1]

I agree with Ulf here. We have only 2 controls and need an average of 4-5 from partner to make the game, when partner has usually 3-4.

About double and 3♥, i play x as an invitational bal/semibal hand, and 3♥ shows shortage.

[jikl]

I would bash 4♠, the problem with 3♥ on this auction as a genuine invite is that you have now given them an extra chance to convey information. They can now double 3♥ to show whatever their agreements are, perhaps it means LHO has good hearts, who knows? So by bidding 3♥ you may give them the chance to know whether or not they should be doubling you later. May as well just go for it now.

 

Sean