I am south

[sceptic]

[hv=d=s&v=a&n=sk9haq5daqt852cak&s=s8765hkj87dk76c92]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     -     Pass

 Pass  2♣    Pass  2♦

 Pass  3♦    Pass  3NT

 Pass  Pass  Pass  

 

I wrong sided the contract and we failed to get to slam

 

I was under the impression that I need 5 hearts to bid them

[EricK]

You could have supported your partner's suit. Kxx plus an outside KJxx plus an outside doubleton is truly excellent support after partner has opened 2♣.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

the first thing, you should show support, i.e. 4D.

Since your hand has the potential to produce

at least 2 tricks, 1 diamond, 1 heart and a 3rd

one being a ruff, you should make a move toward

slam but leave it to opener, if he wants to insist

on slam, playing IMP's it is a lot easier to move

above 3NT.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Fluffy]

2♣ with ♦s is the worst possible opening on your system, as you can see it preempts yourself most of the time. For that reason I wouldn't open it with your partner's hand, 1♦ would be good enough for me. I need somethign even bigger for that.

 

 

Given said that, you are right that the first suit you bid on a natural bidding like this should be at least 5 cards, but you have to diffrenetiate 7 Good HCP from 0 useless with singleton for partner's suit.

 

That's why 4♦ is a better bid. After all you can hardly lose 4NT with 29+ HCP and a long suit to run.

[ralph23]

2♣ - 2♦

2nt - 3♣

3♦ - 3nt

[helene_t]

Maybe

2♣-2♦

3N-4♣

4♦-6N

 

or

 

2♣-22♦

3♦4♦ (minorwood)

4♠(3 kc)-6♦

and now N may correct to 6N to rightside the contract.

 

Ralph's auction is fine as well.

[Myrmidon73]

Is slam the right spot for this contract? What if As is offside? Is it still better to try for slam?

[cherdano]

Is slam the right spot for this contract? What if As is offside? Is it still better to try for slam?

6N by North is pretty good...

[mike777]

<!-- PARTNERSNS begin --><table border=1> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td>Dealer:</td> <td> South </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Vul:</td> <td> All </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Scoring:</td> <td> IMP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table border='1'> <tr> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> K9 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> AQ5 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> AQT852 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> AK </td> </tr> </table> </th> </tr> <tr> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> 8765 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> KJ87 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> K76 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> 92 </td> </tr> </table> </th> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- PARTNERSNS end -->

 

West  North East  South

 

 -     -     -     Pass

 Pass  2♣    Pass  2♦

 Pass  3♦    Pass  3NT

 Pass  Pass  Pass  

 

I wrong sided the contract and we failed to get to slam

 

I was under the impression that I need 5 hearts to bid them

2c=3 (minors) or 4(majors) loser hand

3d=long diamonds or unbalanced hand. Note only a 3 loser hand(minor bid)

4d=support with some slam interest, rebid 3nt or 5d with none

rkc will tell partner you have one key

6nt... opener will rebid 6nt to protect tenaces in his hand.

 

Potential problems are:

1) if you open some random meaning 2club bid

2) you do not realize responder hand is very good with at least mild slam interest.

Partner has a 3 loser hand(showed a minor) and you have 2 kings that may be very helpful, perhaps. :D

[kenrexford]

Interesting hand. Maybe North should open 1♦, to protect the lead...

[ArtK78]

The North hand is not good enough for a 2C opening followed by a 3D rebid. A 2C opening based on a long minor suit must be very strong.

 

However, the North hand is too good to open 1D, so I would open 2C and rebid 2NT. That will, unfortunately, make it very difficult (if not impossible) to get to the cold 6NT from the North hand. At least we will get to 3NT from the North hand.

[jdonn]

Every time someone posts an auction starting 2♣ 2♦ 3♦ (EVERY TIME!) responder doesn't raise with support, misses a diamond slam or diamond contract that is better than 3NT, and wonders what they should have done. And every time a few people say it wasn't a 2♣ opener, and a few more say opener should have rebid something else, but only a few get to the real point. Which is that every time I wonder when people will wise up and start raising their partners with support....

[EricK]

Every time someone posts an auction starting 2♣ 2♦ 3♦ (EVERY TIME!) responder doesn't raise with support, misses a diamond slam or diamond contract that is better than 3NT, and wonders what they should have done. And every time a few people say it wasn't a 2♣ opener, and a few more say opener should have rebid something else, but only a few get to the real point. Which is that every time I wonder when people will wise up and start raising their partners with support....

Part of the problem might be that these people have no way to stop in 4NT (because as everybody knows, 4NT always asks for Aces). So raising 3♦ to 4♦ forces them to either 5♦ or some slam.

[jdonn]

Every time someone posts an auction starting 2♣ 2♦ 3♦ (EVERY TIME!) responder doesn't raise with support, misses a diamond slam or diamond contract that is better than 3NT, and wonders what they should have done. And every time a few people say it wasn't a 2♣ opener, and a few more say opener should have rebid something else, but only a few get to the real point. Which is that every time I wonder when people will wise up and start raising their partners with support....

Part of the problem might be that these people have no way to stop in 4NT (because as everybody knows, 4NT always asks for Aces). So raising 3♦ to 4♦ forces them to either 5♦ or some slam.

And what exactly is wrong with 5♦ or some slam? The 3♦ bidder is usually either unbalanced or extremely strong. Here he was neither and still there was slam.

[ArtK78]

Jdonn, I think you will get almost universal support for a diamond raise on the South hand on the bidding given.

 

That doesn't mean we have to agree with the opening bid.

 

Sometimes, bad bidding works.

[ArcLight]

After 2♣-2♦

1. how many favor: 2NT (22-24 HCP)

2. how many favor: 3♦

 

It seems after 2NT you will stop in 3NT

[helene_t]

I think the hand is a tad strong for a 2N rebid. With a pick-up p, I would rebid 3N. In fact I "never" rebid 3m unless I have solid agreements about follow-ups, which I don't have in any partnership.

 

In the old Jasma/Verheess system book (from the days they played Dutch Doubleton), a 2♦ opening followed by a 3N rebid showed a one-suited hand with stoppers in all unbid suits. Not sure if this hand fits the criteria but at least it will give p a sort of idea about what is going on. On this deal, S can't stay out of slam after such a start.

[ArtK78]

I suspect that by "one-suited hand with stoppers in all other suits" they meant a hand that had good play for 9 tricks, such as

 

Ax Ax AKQxxxx Kx

 

The current hand does not come close to qualifying for a 3NT rebid.

 

Admittedly, the sixth diamond makes the hand stronger than if the 6th diamond were in some other suit. But the hand is not really significantly stronger than a 2NT rebid after a 2C opening. Some would say that it is exactly a 2NT rebid after a 2C opening.

 

The best way to get to slam on this hand without overbidding it from the get go is to open 1D. After 1D-1H, a 3C rebid should get a 3D bid from responder. Now opener can move towards slam.

[ArcLight]

>The best way to get to slam on this hand without overbidding it from the get go is to open 1D

 

And get passed out?

[ArtK78]

Clearly, if you open 1D you run the risk of getting passed out. However, this is not the type of hand where if you get passed out you have definitely missed a game. Partner's hand may not have what you need to produce 9 tricks in no trump (and almost certainly does not have what you need to produce 11 tricks in diamonds).

 

Now, I am not advocating opening 1D on this hand. I think it is a perfectly reasonable 2C opening followed by a 2NT rebid. This is the best way to get to the right GAME on these cards. Unfortunately, it is not very well suited to getting to the right SLAM.

[the hog]

Every time someone posts an auction starting 2♣ 2♦ 3♦ (EVERY TIME!) responder doesn't raise with support, misses a diamond slam or diamond contract that is better than 3NT, and wonders what they should have done. And every time a few people say it wasn't a 2♣ opener, and a few more say opener should have rebid something else, but only a few get to the real point. Which is that every time I wonder when people will wise up and start raising their partners with support....

I cannot agree more with this comment. Support with support! Further, there is NOTHING wrong with opening 2C and rebidding 3D. A 2NT rebid does not do justice to this hand.

 

"Some would say that it is exactly a 2NT rebid after a 2C opening." Who are these "some". Again we have arguments by appeals to anonymous authorities.