what's your bid after partner reverse

[jocdelevat]

[hv=d=s&v=e&s=s9852hkq8d52c8642]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     -     Pass

 Pass  1♦    Pass  1♠

 Pass  2♥    Pass  ?

[kenrexford]

None of the above. I bid 2NT, weak artificial.

[neilkaz]

None of the above. I bid 2NT, weak artificial.

Yep..something like Lebensohl is really useful over reverses and here, if PD doesn't have a real moose you are in serious trouble if you can't stop at the 3 level.

 

The real question is whether you stop at 3♥ in the 4-3 fit (unless opener is 5-6 in reds and opened 1♦ with 6) or stop in 3♦ and hope that the 5-2 plays better than the 4-3 in ♥ or that opener has 6 ♦.

 

.. neilkaz ..

[jillybean]

I'd pass!

[neilkaz]

I'd pass!

I don't blame you, since the 1♠ response is raunchy, but on a bad day you catch opener with A,Axxxx,AKxxxxx,void for his reverse and neither opp has anything resembling a decent vul O/C and everthing splits.

 

+260 B) and - 1 PD for passing his reverse :o !

 

I suggest Lebensohl or Ingbergman (OK I can't spell..but use 2NT as artificial after a reverse)

 

.. neilkaz ..

[helene_t]

3♦ is the textbook bid. (Of course 2N if that's artificial but obviously that's not the agreement). I'm surprised that your expert opp explained 3♦ as weak. Are you sure he's an expert? Maybe he teaches it as weak to beginners but few experts play it that way themselves.

 

3♥ is not unreasonable. Pass is just impossible and 4♥ is premature.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

pass is out, if you make the bid, you better be right, 2H

is forcing.

The smallest lie is 3D, absent of playing 2NT as artificial

it has to be just a mere preference.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Quantumcat]

I pass. There's no game.

 

Partner has 17-19 points. I have 5.

 

No point raising the level when you probably have a seven card fit in both suits and an eight card fit is equally likely in either suit.

[P_Marlowe]

I pass. There's no game.

 

Partner has 17-19 points. I have 5.

 

No point raising the level when you probably have a seven card fit in both suits and an eight card fit is equally likely in either suit.

He may have 20-22HCP, especially if he belongs

to the school, who believes that a jump in the

reverse suit should be a splinter.

 

If you bid in the first round, and passing was a valid

option, you have to bid now.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[markleon]

I understand the votes for pass, but for partnership cohesion, I refuse to pass a forcing bid. On a REALLY bad day, partner will have a one suiter in diamonds too good for a simple 3♦ rebid, and 2♥ will turn out to have been a fake reverse.

[Robert]

Hi jillybean2

 

Playing standard methods a reverse is a one round force.

 

Hi everyone

 

This must have been a 'self rated expert.' Most experts play 2NT as a relay with higher bids showing values.

 

I use the cheaper of 4th suit or 2NT as my 'relay' after a reverse.

 

Regards,

Robert

[Quantumcat]

Well if he could have up to 22 pts you have to bid I guess.

 

But isn't it a general principle that when partner has shown his range and you've decided there's no game, you are supposed to sign off? (As in this case if partner was limited to 19 pts)

[P_Marlowe]

<snip>

But isn't it a general principle that when partner has shown his range and you've decided there's no game, you are supposed to sign off?

Yes, it is, but opener is still unlimited with regards

to his upper limit.

 

Playing a standard american like system, where

you dont open strong two-suiters with 2C, opener

can be really strong.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[markleon]

But isn't it a general principle that when partner has shown his range and you've decided there's no game, you are supposed to sign off? (As in this case if partner was limited to 19 pts)

Only if you are sure in which strain you are playing as well. As I mentioned above, partner may have invented a reverse, because she "knows" that you can't pass. Even if partner is limited to 19 points (which I don't think she is), passing here could lead to playing a 3-3 or 3-2 heart fit.

[ralph23]

Well if he could have up to 22 pts you have to bid I guess.

 

But isn't it a general principle that when partner has shown his range and you've decided there's no game, you are supposed to sign off? (As in this case if partner was limited to 19 pts)

Yes, the principle is true, but p is not so limited, except by not opening 2♣.

 

Reverse is forcing, so don''t pass.

 

2nt is artificial weakness signal, so I would make that playing with an "expert" and hope he gets the drift.

 

Ingberman = cheaper of 4th suit or 2nt is the weakness signal.

Lebensohl = 2nt is the weakness signal

 

I may have those two names backwards. :D

[jocdelevat]

[hv=d=n&v=e&n=s9852hkq8d52c8642&w=sak63ht92dj63c973&e=sqjt74hj73da87cj5&s=sha654dkqt94cakqt]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     Pass  Pass  1♦

 Pass  1♠    Pass  2♥

 Pass  Pass  Pass  

 

I pass because of points. My lho expert said you bid 2nt with good hand and return to first suit with weak hand. My pard made 4h. Surprinsing we still got.1.1 imps.

[jillybean]

Hi jillybean2

 

Playing standard methods a reverse is a one round force.

 

Hi everyone

 

This must have been a 'self rated expert.'  Most experts play 2NT as a relay with higher bids showing values. 

 

I use the cheaper of 4th suit or 2NT as my 'relay' after a reverse.

 

Regards,

Robert

Hi Robert,

 

Playing standard methods I have shown 6 in response to my partners opening bid. Having overbid in the first round I don't want to encourage partner further, we have a 4-3 fit :)

[neilkaz]

Hi jillybean2

 

Playing standard methods a reverse is a one round force.

 

Hi everyone

 

This must have been a 'self rated expert.'  Most experts play 2NT as a relay with higher bids showing values. 

 

I use the cheaper of 4th suit or 2NT as my 'relay' after a reverse.

 

Regards,

Robert

Hi Robert,

 

Playing standard methods I have shown 6 in response to my partners opening bid. Having overbid in the first round I don't want to encourage partner further, we have a 4-3 fit :)

Katherine and joc, please don't pass forcing bids ! Opener's reverse is forcing unless playing something quite non standard where the reverse is limited and you have to jump a round to show a huge two suited GF monster just shy of an opening 2♣.

 

Read my earlier post and hope that your pass doesn't miss a Grand Slam. (OK you won't too often bid one with those cards, but you'd be in 6 if you continue on, properly showing what ever you play as a min response to a reverse).

 

Don't pass forcing bids just bcuz you think you are 1 HCP light. Here KQx in ♥ maybe really useful to PD !!

 

.. neilkaz ..

[ralph23]

Katherine and joc, please don't pass forcing bids !

Amen!

 

If you want to pass p's opening bid of 1♦, be my guest, but you've already burned that bridge. :) . You can't go back on your decision now. It was a very reasonable one and you must live with it....Don't pass.

[pclayton]

Look you can't pass - its a forcing bid (see caveat below). While this is a 5 count, the ♥KQ have suddenly grown in value.

 

I'd make whatever weak call we've agreed on, such as 2N. If pard rebids 3♦ I'd pass, but on the actual hand pard would bid 3♣ and suddenly my hand looks real good. I wouldn't let pard out under 5♣.

[pclayton]

The only time I would pass in a sequence like this is if I responded on something really ugly: Qxxx, xxx, x, xxxxx in an effort to improve the contract of 1♦.

 

The subject hand is much better.

[helene_t]

Playing standard methods I have shown 6 in response to my partners opening bid. Having overbid in the first round I don't want to encourage partner further, we have a 4-3 fit :)

If you have discussed this with p, ok. Then when p has the occasional 10 playing tricks plus ♥J and 7♦ is cold it's just an accident.

 

But in general, passing a forcing bid is one of the most devastating things you can do to a partnership. I don't think it's a good idea to do it without discussion, unless it's a pick-up p with whom you don't want to play again anyway,

[Trumpace]

Surprinsing we still got.1.1 imps.

Don't rely on the IMP score you get in MBC! If you get a good score it does not mean you have played well. Similary a bad score does not mean you played badly.

 

Just ignore the score and look at the hand without bias. A good result does not justify bad decisions, especially the IMP score in MBC.

[cherdano]

Playing standard methods I have shown 6 in response to my partners opening bid. Having overbid in the first round I don't want to encourage partner further, we have a 4-3 fit :)

Kathryn, this hand is suddenly better than 6 points, because KQx in partner's second suit is a great holding. If partner puts us in game, I expect it to be decent.

[jillybean]

Playing standard methods I have shown 6 in response to my partners opening bid. Having overbid in the first round I don't want to encourage partner further, we have a 4-3 fit  :)

Kathryn, this hand is suddenly better than 6 points, because KQx in partner's second suit is a great holding. If partner puts us in game, I expect it to be decent.

Perhaps, I think with a 4-3 fit and ~22points we won't be missing too many games. :)

 

As a general rule I'm not saying pass forcing bids, I think this is an exception.

imo its an ugly hand, we responded with less than a minimum and we have no agreements to show a weak hand now. Better part score than a minus when we end up in a bad game.