Jacoby 2nt

[Free]

2♦ as transfer is not standard 2/1, 2NT as inv+ is not J2NT,... Stop using your own systems if the system is CLEARLY described: std 2/1, J2NT in case you open 1♠. That's not hard, is it? :P

 

Simple hand for 2/1 imo:

pass - 1♥

1♠ - 2♠

4♠ - pass

[Robert]

Hi Free

 

Is it that hard to read the first post to get the instructions 'correct' before you rant and rave in 'error?' What did you think that "(your favorite version thereof)" meant if not non-standard 'versions were not welcomed. :)

 

Regards,

Robert

[hrothgar]

Hi Free

 

Is it that hard to read the first post to get the instructions 'correct' before you rant and rave in 'error?'  What did you think that "(your favorite version thereof)" meant if not non-standard 'versions were not welcomed.  :)

 

Regards,

Robert

Personally, I would assume that the expression Jacoby 2NT response requires that the auction 1S - 2NT promises game forcing values. (Personally, I would be highly annoyed if a pickup partner claimed they were playing Jacoby 2NT but chose to make the bid with a 4 card limit raise)

 

As I read the original question, players are invited to use any one of a variety of different response structures following the game forcing 2NT bid.

 

For example, some folks might like the "traditional" response structure in which

 

3 level bids show shortage

4 level bids show 5-5 shape

 

Other might prefer a Bergen type structure.

[whereagles]

A hand with two good 5+ suits, in response to J2NT is, by definition, a non-minimum

So what do you do with a max 55 hand (say 3-4 losers) opposite J2NT?

 

I can imagine to simply use RKCB and, if the keys are all there, follow-up with 6 of the 2nd suit as a grand slam try. Is that it?

[Quantumcat]

If jacoby 2N can be invitational with four cards, what does 3♠ mean?? Doesn't that mean invitational with four cards too?

[Echognome]

If jacoby 2N can be invitational with four cards, what does 3♠ mean?? Doesn't that mean invitational with four cards too?

Nope. It means preemptive.

[mike777]

A hand with two good 5+ suits, in response to J2NT is, by definition, a non-minimum

So what do you do with a max 55 hand (say 3-4 losers) opposite J2NT?

 

I can imagine to simply use RKCB and, if the keys are all there, follow-up with 6 of the 2nd suit as a grand slam try. Is that it?

In Bergen:

1spade=2nt

3d=nonminimum two suiter or any good hand that is anxious to learn more about responder's distribution

 

Over 3d responder shows shortness:

3h=doubleton club

3s=doubleton diamond

3nt=doubleton heart

4c=nonmimimum 4x3

4d=stiff club and a hand too strong to splinter

4h=stiff d and a hand too strong to splinter

4s= a minimum 4x3

 

After this cuebids and for me kickback follow.

[mikeh]

A hand with two good 5+ suits, in response to J2NT is, by definition, a non-minimum

So what do you do with a max 55 hand (say 3-4 losers) opposite J2NT?

 

I can imagine to simply use RKCB and, if the keys are all there, follow-up with 6 of the 2nd suit as a grand slam try. Is that it?

it depends on the hand. I am not ducking the issue, but it truly depends on the hand. On some, I can bid 3♣, non-minimum with a stiff somewhere or any huge hand: responder usually relays via 3♦, and any rebid by opener beyond 3n shows a huge hand. On others, I can show my side suit at the 4-level and then keep going beyond game should partner signoff and on others I can keycard... but I am not a big keycard bidder... certainly nowhere near as often as it appears that most forum posters are.

 

And I can also show a void, via 3OM over 2N. And then keep bidding if appropriate.

 

As I say, it depends on the exact hand.

[ralph23]

The idea of 3♣ by opener to artificially show any "minimum" is interesting and I rather like it. A couple of people I believe suggested this method.

 

Q. Assuming that the partnership uses Bergen for non-GF responses to a major opening (and reserves J2NT for its traditional meaning of a GF major raise): Then, With a real dog opening hand (sub-par hand), opener can still jump to 4♠, even when using the artificial 3♣ "minimum" showing bid, yes ? Is there any other use for opener's jump to 4♠ over the Jac2NT bid? It takes up so much space, that it seems wrong to use it for any non-min hand.

 

So 3♣ by opener = minimum opening hand (however defined);

 

and a jump to 4♠ by opener = sub-minimum opening i.e "I'm embarrassed that I opened this hand"

 

Q2. Same question as before, but assuming you use 3♠ to show the "minimum" but non-dog hand (real dog getting the 4♠ jump). I believe this is the method suggested by mikeh... without starting religious wars :rolleyes: , isn't this theoretically better than the 3♣ method, in that it saves more bidding space when opener has a non-minimum?

 

All ideas submitted are interesting and thought-provoking ... thanks.

[Free]

Hi Free

 

Is it that hard to read the first post to get the instructions 'correct' before you rant and rave in 'error?'  What did you think that "(your favorite version thereof)" meant if not non-standard 'versions were not welcomed.  :D

 

Regards,

Robert

Personally, I would assume that the expression Jacoby 2NT response requires that the auction 1S - 2NT promises game forcing values. (Personally, I would be highly annoyed if a pickup partner claimed they were playing Jacoby 2NT but chose to make the bid with a 4 card limit raise)

 

As I read the original question, players are invited to use any one of a variety of different response structures following the game forcing 2NT bid.

 

For example, some folks might like the "traditional" response structure in which

 

3 level bids show shortage

4 level bids show 5-5 shape

 

Other might prefer a Bergen type structure.

Exactly how I understand it.

 

Btw, 2NT as invite+ is Jordan 2NT, not Jacoby. These are not the same... :D

[blackshoe]

No, Jordan and Jacoby 2NT bids are not the same - but Jordan only applies in the specific auction 1M-(X)-?. If RHO passes, and you respond 2NT to show inv+ values, it's neither Jacoby nor Jordan. Unless you're Humpty Dumpty ("Words mean what I want them to mean, neither more nor less.") :D

[skjaeran]

What you refer to as Jacoby 2NT in ACBL (and mostly online) is called Stenberg in Scandinavia. Alvar Stenberg of Sweden invented this convention prior to Jacoby. Originally it showed a GF raise, these days it's often played as inv+. There's a lot of response schemes out there. Nobody over here play the standard Jacoby response scheme (maybe an exception for people who've been taught online by americans).

 

I play 2NT as a GF raise with my partner. Our responses are:

3♣= any minimum, 11-13(bad 14) =>3♦=relay

3♦= 14+, any singleton => 3♥=relay

3♥= bal 15-17 (6322/5422) =>3♠=relay

3♠= (13)14-16 any void =>3NT=relay

3NT= 18-19NT

4m= 17+, void

4M= 17+, void OM

 

(This scheme also works if 2NT is inv+, responder rebids 3M over 3♣ to sign off.)

[Robert]

Hi everyone

 

I disagree with hrothgar. My dictionary defines variant as, "an altered form of something." The poster asked for 2NT Jacoby or your favorite variant.

 

hrothgar is absolutely correct that he(and I) would never use a variant of any bid with a pick up partner. However, given the stated 'variant' in the post, after prior agreement with partner, the 2NT limit+ with 4 trumps or a GF raise is a variant that I do play with regular partners.

 

Hi Free What blackshoe said!

 

If you reread the first post, it uses the word variant(which means "an altered form"

If you want to complain, at least read the post correctly. :)

 

Jordan 2NT is used after 1MX as a raise in America since you changed the topic. If you use a variant, please state that you do so in your post. All bidders do not use the same mehtods, so 'if' the post does suggest 'variant' bidding, I will continue to feel free to post my variant type answers.

 

Regards,

Robert

[neilkaz]

What you refer to as Jacoby 2NT in ACBL (and mostly online) is called Stenberg in Scandinavia. Alvar Stenberg of Sweden invented this convention prior to Jacoby. Originally it showed a GF raise, these days it's often played as inv+. There's a lot of response schemes out there. Nobody over here play the standard Jacoby response scheme (maybe an exception for people who've been taught online by americans).

 

I play 2NT as a GF raise with my partner. Our responses are:

3♣= any minimum, 11-13(bad 14) =>3♦=relay

3♦= 14+, any singleton => 3♥=relay

3♥= bal 15-17 (6322/5422) =>3♠=relay

3♠= (13)14-16 any void =>3NT=relay

3NT= 18-19NT

4m= 17+, void

4M= 17+, void OM

 

(This scheme also works if 2NT is inv+, responder rebids 3M over 3♣ to sign off.)

I love it..much better than the awful "SA" responses to J2NT. Is there a web site explaining further continuations after the relays ? I looked but couldn't find exactly what I was looking for and found some different responses to Stenberg as well.

 

TY .. neilkaz ..

[keylime]

I open 1S happily in South:

 

1S - 2H

2S* (any minimum) - 3S (minimum)

4S

 

or if I wanted to completely suppress the heart (I wouldn't):

 

1S - 2NT* (how many losers?) ((what Larry and I use))

3D* (six of them) - 4S

 

or:

 

1S - 2NT* (LR or better) ((Swedish 2NT))

3C* (any minimum) - 4S

[skjaeran]

What you refer to as Jacoby 2NT in ACBL (and mostly online) is called Stenberg in Scandinavia. Alvar Stenberg of Sweden invented this convention prior to Jacoby. Originally it showed a GF raise, these days it's often played as inv+. There's a lot of response schemes out there. Nobody over here play the standard Jacoby response scheme (maybe an exception for people who've been taught online by americans).

 

I play 2NT as a GF raise with my partner. Our responses are:

3♣= any minimum, 11-13(bad 14) =>3♦=relay

3♦= 14+, any singleton => 3♥=relay

3♥= bal 15-17 (6322/5422) =>3♠=relay

3♠= (13)14-16 any void =>3NT=relay

3NT= 18-19NT

4m= 17+, void

4M= 17+, void OM

 

(This scheme also works if 2NT is inv+, responder rebids 3M over 3♣ to sign off.)

I love it..much better than the awful "SA" responses to J2NT. Is there a web site explaining further continuations after the relays ? I looked but couldn't find exactly what I was looking for and found some different responses to Stenberg as well.

 

TY .. neilkaz ..

You won't find this variant on any website I know of.

But I'll fill you in how I play it:

 

1M-2NT

3♣-3♦ (relay)

3♥=11-12NT

3♠=any singleton =>3NT=relay, 4♣=♣, 4♦=♦, 4M=OM

3NT=13-14NT

4m=void

4M=void OM

 

1M-2NT

3♦-3♥ (relay)

3♠=single ♣

3NT=single ♦

4m=lowest cue, single OM

4M=now side suit cue, single OM

 

1M-2NT

3♥-3♠ (relay)

4♣=6322 =>4♣ relays for 3c up the line

4m=4c (5422)

4M=4cOM (5422)

[foo]

South should pass with

♠ T9752 ♥ A ♦ AQT98 ♣ J2

IMO.

 

This hand is light on HCP and has the flaws of Jx and a stiff A.

 

Then the bidding is easy:

p-1H;1S-2S;Invite-4S

 

 

If South does open that Jreck +and+ "standard" J2N is on:

1S-2N!4S since

1= South has a dead minimum on this auction.

2= "standard" J2N includes Fast Arrival.

 

Playing Slow Arrival, South would rebid 3S, "I have nothing extra to say" instead of leaping to game and then N would bid 4S.

 

Under no circumstances is S's subminimum opening worth a positive response to any form of J2N.

[Gerben42]

Let's assume South opens 1♠, then:

 

2NT (Invite or better 4+♠)

3♣ (Minimum)

4♠ (GLP)