I really don't understand (competitive) bidding

[Trumpace]

You manage to get a seat at a table with expert opps, who are very likely real experts, on BBO.

 

First hand:

 

you hold x, xx, Jxxxx, AKQJx

 

only you (and partner, of course) are vul, scoring IMPS and are first to open.

 

You open 1♦ (Agree?)

 

LHO overcalls 2♣! (nice suit there opp :lol: )

 

pard bids 2♠, pass to you.

 

Is 2♠ forcing? What do you bid?

[helene_t]

Oh boy this is terrible. Yes, 2♠ is forcing unless specifically playing NFB.

 

2N for me, fortunately I don't have to consider 3♣ since that's artificial, of course.

[Echognome]

I don't like 1♦ on this hand at all. I'm passing or opening 1♣ and rebidding 2♣. The suit disparity is just too great for me.

 

If I subbed in and had opened 1♦, then I'm bidding 2NT now. I can't see anything else. That is saying that I view 2♠ to be forcing.

[ArcLight]

I don't like 1♦ on this hand at all.  I'm passing or opening 1♣ and rebidding 2♣.  The suit disparity is just too great for me.

 

If I subbed in and had opened 1♦, then I'm bidding 2NT now.  I can't see anything else.  That is saying that I view 2♠ to be forcing.

If you open 1♣, then what do you bid if pard responds 1M?

2♦ is a Reverse, and you don't have teh values.

1NT is pretty bad with 5521 shape, and 2-1 in teh majors, and a singleton or doubleton x in the other major.

 

I think the system bid is 1♦ then 2♣, despite the disparity.

 

 

 

Over 2♠ (which is forcing for one round), I bid 2NT.

I wonder if the 2♣ was not natural, and is instead some unalteretd transfer to another suit? Hearts?

[TimG]

If you open 1♣, then what do you bid if pard responds 1M?

2♣.

[mike777]

You manage to get a seat at a table with expert opps, who are very likely real experts, on BBO.

 

First hand:

 

you hold x, xx, Jxxxx, AKQJx

 

only you (and partner, of course) are vul, scoring IMPS and are first to open.

 

You open 1♦ (Agree?)

 

LHO overcalls 2♣! (nice suit there opp  :( )

 

pard bids 2♠, pass to you.

 

Is 2♠ forcing? What do you bid?

pass, not open, if playing with a pickup partner, no problem yet.

[helene_t]

Hey Mike in another thread you approved my opening on a 5-5 minors hand that was about a king weaker than this one.

[Apollo81]

A new suit by responder is forcing one round unless opener's last bid was 1NT.

 

That means opener must bid in these auctions:

1♦-(2♣)-2♠

1♣-(2♦)-2♥

1♥-(1♠)-2♣

 

but not in these auctions:

1NT-(2♦)-2♥

1NT-(2♥)-2♠

 

A 3-level new suit bid is forcing even if opener's last bid was 1NT.

1NT-(2♠)-3♣

 

There are of course conventional defenses to interference of 1NT (lebensohl etc) but that is a separate issue.

 

So.....you're sort of forced to bid 2NT here. Do you see any other option?

[ArcLight]

If you open 1♣, then what do you bid if pard responds 1M?

2♣.

2♣ would tend to imply a 6 card suit.

 

I don't like that bidding sequence that hids the 2nd (but weak) 5 card suit AND lies about the club length, despite the quality of the Clubs.

[TimG]

If you open 1♣, then what do you bid if pard responds 1M?

2♣.

2♣ would tend to imply a 6 card suit.

 

I don't like that bidding sequence that hids the 2nd (but weak) 5 card suit AND lies about the club length, despite the quality of the Clubs.

When your two suits are Jxxxx and AKQJx it's almost like you're 4-6.

[Trumpace]

A new suit by responder is forcing one round unless opener's last bid was 1NT.

 

That means opener must bid in these auctions:

1♦-(2♣)-2♠

1♣-(2♦)-2♥

1♥-(1♠)-2♣

 

but not in these auctions:

1NT-(2♦)-2♥

1NT-(2♥)-2♠

 

A 3-level new suit bid is forcing even if opener's last bid was 1NT.

1NT-(2♠)-3♣

 

There are of course conventional defenses to interference of 1NT (lebensohl etc) but that is a separate issue.

 

So.....you're sort of forced to bid 2NT here. Do you see any other option?

Thanks..

 

I wanted to make a minimum possible rebid and show my suit oriented hand, so I bid 3♦! :( :)

 

I did not want to bid 2NT as I was afraid this hand is very bad for NT: Partner probably has a singleton club, my hand does not have any other entries, we might be forced to cash clubs, setting up tricks for LHO, or worse, leave them hanging there.

 

Also, for some reason I thought 2NT promised extras, but that probably makes sense only after a fit is found (What else would I rebid with 2-3-4-4...)

 

Sorry if this was too dumb a question.

[cherdano]

I would open 1D, and over 2S you have to rebid 2N.

[Fluffy]

When your two suits are Jxxxx and AKQJx it's almost like you're 4-6.

Maybe a bit exagerated, but I agree, I open 4-5 with 1♦ and that's wha tI would do.

 

2♠ I would ask my opponent if he know if its forcing, if he doesn't know I will bid 2NT.

[gwnn]

your hand is not very good for NT, but it's even worse for clubs. RHO will overruff dummy.

[mike777]

Hey Mike in another thread you approved my opening on a 5-5 minors hand that was about a king weaker than this one.

Not if playing with a pickup partner which was specified in this thread but not in the other. :P

 

A pickup partner will not expect this.

A regular partner would. :)

With a regular partner I can pass 2 spades since that is a NFB. I did not see that mentioned here. :)

 

I assume most of us play something special or more detailed with a regular partnership and more down the middle(whatever that means) with a pick up partnership.

[Trumpace]

your hand is not very good for NT, but it's even worse for clubs. RHO will overruff dummy.

Surely you mean diamonds instead of clubs?

 

But why should that be the case? If partner has xxx of diamonds and diamonds are trump, any overruff by RHO will probably be with natural trump tricks.

[han]

I would open 1D. I'm surprised that a true expert would overcall 2C without any honors in that suit. The 2NT rebid seems clear, what else?

 

I don't mind the 1C-2C approach, although I wouldn't do it.

[gwnn]

Yep, i meant diamonds.

 

As for your second suggestion, allow me to be a little laconic: IF.

[Trumpace]

Yep, i meant diamonds.

 

As for your second suggestion, allow me to be a little laconic: IF.

I hope partner would understand that I might have only 5 diamonds and not raise/leave me with him having a singleton/doubleton in diamonds.

 

Anyway, I need to pick up a good book first, before I even attempt to discuss any bidding :)

 

My current bidding ideas are a mish-mash from various sources.

 

Any suggestions for a good, not outdated, 2/1 book?

 

tia.

[Guest Jlall]

I'm surprised that a true expert would overcall 2C without any honors in that suit.

x Ax AKx T9xxxxx would be a normal 2C bid, and thats only 11 HCP.

[kenberg]

I would open a diamond and, when the auction develops as it did, I would be very unhappy as no doubt you were. You have to bid, I guess 2N is as good as anything. There simply is no way to describe your hand and there is no contract that is remotely attractive.

 

As to opening 1D: Well, I think it's worth opening something, I plan to rebid 2C letting partner decide what's next, and if the hand has to be played in a minor then partner probably has some diamonds. If partner has four small it's at least possible I will lose only two tricks in that suit. Whatever the case, when partner has diamonds, I probably will lose the same number of tricks in that suit whether or not they are trump.

 

Of course if my lho becomes declarer I would much prefer a club lead to a diamond lead, and that's a consideration. But I don't think it outweighs the advantages of starting in on describing my shape. Partners don't, and shouldn't, always lead a club just because the bidding started with 1C.

 

Rebidding 3D is really ugly but you are really stuck and I think partner needs to appreciate your situation in the post mortem. But, like others, I think 2N is probably the best.

[SoTired]

1) 2S is forcing

2) 2N is only option

3) 1D is opening bid. In 90% of bidding situations, ignore honor placement and only worry about length. This hand has 5-5, so you open in your highest ranking 5-card suit. Ignore the honor disparity.

 

I don't understand how anyone could recommend planning to bid one 5-card suit twice without mentioning the other 5-card suit

[goobers]

3) 1D is opening bid. In 90% of bidding situations, ignore honor placement and only worry about length. This hand has 5-5, so you open in your highest ranking 5-card suit. Ignore the honor disparity.

 

I don't understand how anyone could recommend planning to bid one 5-card suit twice without mentioning the other 5-card suit

Thanks, I thought I was going crazy or learned everything wrong when people suggested opening 1C

[pbleighton]

I assume most of us play something special or more detailed with a regular partnership and more down the middle(whatever that means) with a pick up partnership. 

 

Mike, are you still passing balanced 13 counts when you play with pickup partners?

 

Peter

[whereagles]

I would probably open 1♣ and pretend I have a 4D-5C hand. That would inhibit LHO's bid.. lol ;)