sceptic Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 [hv=d=n&v=a&n=s92hk9852dq98ckq4&w=sakj8h643dak72ca3&e=sqt7hdt643cj98765&s=s6543haqjt7dj5ct2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - Pass Pass Pass 1♦ 1♥ Pass 3♥ Pass Pass Pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 Heck no. I don't even know if you're asking about South or West, since they both seem equally ridiculous. East has a call, though. 3♦ gets my vote if you play that as weak.(over 1 heart, of course) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 West cannot pass over 3H. 3S would imply at least 4-5 in the pointed suits. Double showing a very strong hand stands out. That might get you to 5D, which is cold. It could also get you to 5C, which is not cold. 4S is probably going to fail after a trump lead. There are 10 tricks, sort of, but if you ruff two hearts in dummy and establish your long diamond you will be tapped in hearts and go down. If you do not ruff two hearts in dummy you can't come to 10 tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 No you should not bid 3♠ and that for a very fundamental reason: extra strength alone is not reason for bidding on in hi-level auctions without a fit for partner. If anything you could double but I approve your pass. Agree with jtfanclub that E should have bid 3♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 Disagree with all these comments that east should bid 3D. I do agree with bidding 2D but I think pass by east is ok. East only has 4d not 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 No you should not bid 3♠ and that for a very fundamental reason: extra strength alone is not reason for bidding on in hi-level auctions without a fit for partner. If anything you could double but I approve your pass. Agree with jtfanclub that E should have bid 3D. I agree, though 2D by east is reasonable as well. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 (edited) 4S is probably going to fail after a trump lead. There are 10 tricks, sort of, but if you ruff two hearts in dummy and establish your long diamond you will be tapped in hearts and go down. If you do not ruff two hearts in dummy you can't come to 10 tricks. Ruff three hearts in dummy. Whoops! Trump lead. Hmmm... 1. Trump won in dummy. 2. Club ace.Another club. 4. Win...let's say another trump. Play another club, tossing a heart.5. Ruff the heart on the board (they can't lead another trump)6. Play another club, overruffing as necessary.... Nope, you're right, goes down on a trump lead, makes on a heart lead. If your partner doesn't hang you by passing the 1 heart bid, now you can bid 3♠ because your partner can at the worst back into 4 diamonds. As it is, you have the unenviable choices of double or pass. Edited July 31, 2007 by jtfanclub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph23 Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 No on 3♠. East did not make a negative double so if he by some miracle has 4 spades, he is broke. 3♦ by East is always weak here & is much more attractive that usual with only 4 pieces, due to the heartless nature of East :lol: . This gets East's hand off his chest immediately and makes West captain and that's great in competitive auctions. 2♦ would show more values than East actually has, imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 Disagree with all these comments that east should bid 3D. I do agree with bidding 2D but I think pass by east is ok. East only has 4d not 5. If you feel that 4 cards and a void isn't support, then bid 3 clubs. I would never pass because I had *too much* shape, or *too much* support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted July 31, 2007 Report Share Posted July 31, 2007 Hmmmm. Wayne.This hand looks familiar............lololol. I just knew it would wind up on the forum. DHL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceptic Posted August 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 haha, well I never bid 3 spades, but I was tempted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowerline Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 [hv=d=n&v=a&n=s92hk9852dq98ckq4&w=sakj8h643dak72ca3&e=sqt7hdt643cj98765&s=s6543haqjt7dj5ct2]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - Pass Pass Pass 1♦ 1♥ Pass 3♥ Pass Pass Pass A weak 2♦ or 3♦ by east would have worked well here, but I suppose you are not playing a system that allows this.For the problem at hand, west should have doubled 3♥. A more interesting question would be what east should bid now or what west should do if east bids 4♣? Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 East can pass, bid 2♦ (I don't like it at all) or 3♦ (I don't like it much) But it is west's bid what it is being questioned. And he can either pass, or double. Double is the normal bid. 3♠ is not on, 3♠ shows a 4-6 (or 5-6 if you allow it in your methods), nothing to do with 4432. If you double you might find 4♣ wich is a solid contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 Or you might find 5D which is also a solid contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 The basic principle of competitive bidding is that it is the hand with shape acts; balanced hands should keep quiet. No-one has mentioned the NS bidding (because you were West, I imagine). But I would not pass on the South hand in third seat. I am a fairly conservative opening bidder and don't open light on rubbish, but when you have 100 honours to a five card suit, and you know it's not your hand on HCP, you have to act: open either 1H or 2H (weak). Anyway, that's beside the point. What should EW be doing? I don't understand how East can not raise diamonds looking at 4-card support and an outside shortage. 3D just looks like a down-the-middle pre-emptive raise, and that should get you to 5D. West does not have a normal double of 3H, which should be for take-out with short hearts. You could double, on the basis that partner has short hearts, but that is really saying that you don't trust partner.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhall Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 The auction tells W that partner holds no more than one ♥. So they are guranteed an 8-card fit somewhere, and partner can cover two of W's 6 losers with small trump. Add a pointed Q and a 4-level contract is likely to make. Since partner did not raise ♦ despite his ♥ shortness, our fit is likely to be in a black suit. Thus, double stands out. We may fail by one at the 4 level, but we may also find a spade game or a minor part score. Either of these is better than 3♥ undoubled down one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 I agree that east should have acted, either 2D or 3D (my choice). 3S by west is crazy, the only alternative to pass is the double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 West does not have a normal double of 3H, which should be for take-out with short hearts. You could double, on the basis that partner has short hearts, but that is really saying that you don't trust partner.... Or you could be doubling on the basis that you have half the deck in high cards. Others have pointed out that West knows that partner cannot have more than one heart on the auction. Therefore, there must be an 8 card fit in one of the other suits. West also knows that East is likely to have a near blizzard, so if the partnership is to get back into the auction, West must act. Double is clear-cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 The auction tells W that partner holds no more than one ♥. So they are guranteed an 8-card fit somewhere, and partner can cover two of W's 6 losers with small trump. That assumes that the auction is honest. That's a hell of an assumption. South just watched his partner, a passed hand, make a limp-in overcall, and the next player couldn't muster even a trash response. I don't know about you, but when I'm sitting South, my call in this auction doesn't show 6-9 hcp and 4+ hearts or whatever. It says "Let's see...what can I saw that will (censored) the auction up the most for West. Hmmm, 3 hearts ought to do it". What's my partner going to do? Bid 4♥? Double for penalties? I seriously doubt it. West has a powerhouse. South is bidding 3♥ to screw with West. Assume what South (and therefore East) has at your own peril. I mean, seriously, would you be shocked if North overcalled with a 4 card suit, and South jumped with a 3 card suit and club shortness? I wouldn't. That's why it's so important for East to show his hand early. It's a heck of a thing to trust the opponents when they know you have a strong hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 I don't like the "opps promised 9 hearts so p must have a singleton" reasoning. It's not in opps' interest to tell me what partner has. Besides, full disclosure has its limits: I can't know their style in details. For all I know opps may be in a 4-3 fit. I've been at the 3-level in a 4-2-fit in a preemptive auction myself. A non-alerted preemptive auction, it was, since p and I didn't know each others' insanity on beforehand. I'd rather base my conclusion on p's holding on the basis of his own lack of bidding. Even if my confidence in p turns out to be unjustified at least my relationship with him/her will benefit. So if p had any values at all he must have clubs. With a near-yarb he could have spades but even then he will not bid 4♠ on his own and I won't bid it either. If he bids 4♦ over my double he almost certainly has only three of them. And I don't want him to play any number of clubs. So pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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