2 club opener

[sceptic]

[hv=d=n&v=e&n=sa74haq3daqj52caj&w=skq862hk52dt9ct86&e=sjt5h76d8cq975432&s=s93hjt984dk7643ck]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     2♣    Pass  2♥

 Pass  3♦    Pass  6♦

 Pass  7♦    Pass  Pass

 Pass  

[helene_t]

2♣ is ok, probably a tad strong for 2N. You should rebid 2N or 3♥. 3♦ does not describe your hand and it consumes bidding space.

 

Does 6♦ specifically ask you to bid 7 with four first-round controls? If p really had a positive 2♥ response to 2♣, you expect to discard at least two losers on the hearts so p needs ♦K plus either a 6th hearts or a second-round control in either black suit for 7. OTOH you have a very bad hand for your 3♦ rebid so I would just pass and hope that it makes. You can also correct to 6♥ and then maybe p can bid 7. That said there's not much scope for science after the Neadnerthal-style (my favorite, lol) 6♦ bid.

[Impact]

Wayne,

 

It came up smelling of roses but quite frankly it was no thing of beauty.

 

Local golfers have an expression: BABBU (bloody awful but bloody useful).

 

Points of interest:

A) for North when you hold a balanced hand it is really good to bid it as a balanced hand ;

 

:) for South, I do not know your responding style to 2C opening, but whatever it is, undignified jumps to the 6-level which are not classical "pictures" opposite a huge and unlimited hand, do not a partnership make!

 

C) If North pictured no shortage and at least 5H to K and 4D to K it is not such a stretch to bid 7D - but you would want to know your customer! maybe xx KJTxx KTxx xx (or even black Qs as well)

 

D) Grands on a hook are life- threatening but presumably (tongue in cheek) you were playing much stronger opposition.....

 

regards

[kenrexford]

Ugly bash bidding. It looks like:

 

Step responses as step one.

 

Bid best suit as step two.

 

Raise to a really high level immediately as step three.

 

Guess as step four.

 

Sure seems like some science might be slightly more useful. Maybe Blackwood, for starters?

[ArcLight]

What does 2♥ mean?

"I have 5 random hearts and 7 scattered HCP?"

 

I very much dislike that, as it gets in the way of the way of opener, and gives false information. A suit like KQT97 may be worth mentioning, JT984 is only useful if pard bids taht suit.

[ArtK78]

2C followed by 3 of a minor should be reserved for extremely strong hands with a very strong 6 card or longer minor suit. A minor suit rebid after a 2C opening creates an awkward auction, so it should be reserved for hands where you have no good alternative.

 

This hand is a 2C opening followed by a 2NT rebid.

 

As for the 6D bid, I am constantly amazed at good players who cannot find any useful call between the 3 level and the 6 level. It is as if there is a time limit on the auction.

 

Finally, I (almost) never bid a grand slam on a guess. If you cannot count 13 tricks, don't bid a grand. I made an exception recently in the finals of a pair event. My partner opened one of a minor and rebid 2NT, showing 18-19 HCP. Since I had 19 myself, I bid 7NT figuring that everyone else would do the same. It turned out to be on a finesse which was onside. Our score on the hand was 12 out of 19 - slightly above average.

[Finch]

2C: if you play a 2NT opening as 20-22 I don't object to 2NT here, but you might decide it is too good.

 

2H: Seems a bit light for a positive. I can see the attraction holding a 5-5 (you get to bid both suits) but if partner if strong balanced you'll be able to describe your hand, and if he isn't strong balanced you may get too high. I think a positive needs slightly more, but again this isn't the worst bid in the world.

 

3D: I hate this. Raise hearts. Partner has shown a positive with a decent (in theory) heart suit. Why not pass on the good news? After the 2C opening and response a sane auction is 2C - 2H - 3H - (somthing) - RKCB - oops not enough key cards - 6H. Which I agree isn't the best spot, but it's better than 7D!

 

That auction has just missed 7D when South's CK is in hearts, I realise that... but I still think North should raise hearts!

 

6D: that's silly. Why not bid 4D?

 

7D: not absurd. But too much guessing went on earlier.

[sceptic]

pick up p we had no agreements, I bashed 6 diamonds for lack of knowing what else to do with no agreements and I was not over enamoured with pards bidding prior to this (I am not critising him or her, as I am no expert myself)

[blackshoe]

For me, North's hand is a minimum 2 ♣ opener followed by a minimum NT. South's hand, having 2 controls, is a 2 ♥ bid. North now knows that they are missing 2 kings, so should not normally expect that a grand slam is on, though small slam may be. 3 ♦ would show an unbalanced hand - in my preferred methods it would actually show clubs, but never mind that. North doesn't have an unbalanced hand, so 3 ♦ is out. 2NT and 3NT are non forcing. 4NT and 5NT are quantitative. I'm going to bid 2NT. If partner bids 3NT, I'll bid 4. If he shows a heart suit, I'll be thinking about slam in hearts or NT. If he shows a black suit or, unexpectedly, diamonds, I'll be thinking about slam in NT, but less seriously (we have the necessary controls, but do we have the power to take 12 tricks?) I'm not going for a grand slam that making depends on partner having the perfect hand. Heck, as the cards lie, the small slam only makes because we have ten tricks in the red suits.

 

 

 

converted :s: to [sU]

Edited July 30, 2007 by Gerardo

[ArtK78]

I do not understand. blackshoe. You say that you are going to rebid 2NT over 2H and then if partner bids 3NT you will bid 4NT. Why? You have what you said you have - a balanced or semi-balanced 22 count. Sure, the fifth diamond is good (although AQJTx would be better), but not so much that it justifies another call. You have what your partner expects you to have. Presumably, if he bids 3NT, he will have a minimum for his 2H response (assuming that it showed 2 controls, he will have that and little else). Why are you inviting? Isn't that your partner's job on this auction?

 

If partner has just 2 kings, even 3NT may be in jeopardy on a club lead. For example:

 

Kxx

Kxx

xxxx

xxx

 

(It would be nice if partner had the club 10 as part of his xxx, but he certainly hasn't promised it)

 

If partner has more than this, he will bid 4NT. After all, you have shown 22-23 HCP or so.

 

To me, since 2NT is forcing over a 2 control response, the 4NT bid should show a higher range. Whether it is 24-25 or 26-27 depends on your methods.

[blackshoe]

You're right Art, I bid too fast. :)

 

You're also right that 2NT should be forcing (to game).

 

When I can, I like to use this NT ladder:

 

12-14: open 1 of a suit, rebid 1NT

15-17: open 1NT

18-20-: open 1 of a suit, rebid 2NT

20+-22: open 2♦, rebid 2NT

23-24: open 2♣, rebid 2NT

25-26: open 2NT (forcing! :))

27-28: open 2♦, rebid 3NT

 

or this one, playing Romex:

 

12-16: open 1 of a suit, rebid 1NT

17-18: open 1 of a suit, rebid 2NT

19-20: open 1NT (artificial, forcing)

21-22: open 2♦, rebid 2NT

23-24: open 2♣, rebid 2NT

25-26: open 2NT (forcing! :))

27-28: open 2♦, rebid 3NT

 

An alternative to the forcing 2NT opening is to use the Kokish relay after a 2[CL} opening, which allows using 2NT to show some other hand (I like it as a bad 3 level minor suit preempt, but that's Mid-Chart).

[kenberg]

I think that a better beginning would be

 

2C 2D (usually 0-7 but maybe waiting)

2N 3D(trf)

3H 4D (natural)

 

 

Opener, with his diamonds, will presumably go on to a small slam in diamonds. This is probably where it belongs. Playing in hearts you will not be happy if a diamond is led. Whether you take the heart finesse or play ace and another there is danger of a ruff.

 

Generally with pick-ups I think that it is best to play presumably natural positive responses so that 2H does not require KQxxx (it's just too tough to clarify your strength later without having previous discussion if 2C - 2D is often bid with good values but no strong suit) however a suit headed by JT9 is a little too weak even for me unless I have just too much stuff, and I don't. The stiff king of clubs turns out to be very useful, but that's hard to predict. The finesse works, but of course that is unknown. This looks to me like a hand where you start with 2D and then hope to show that you have a good hand for the 2D bid.

 

With the auction beginning as it did, 2C-2H, it is beyond my understanding why the next call would be something other than 3H. Maybe partner thought you were playing 2H as negative, or controls, or steps, or God only knows what, but I raise hearts holding his cards.

 

Ken

 

 

PS While watching the Spingold yesterday Joey Silver was commenting, to widespread agreement from the other commentators, that you either put in a lot of work with partner on your system (obviously impossible with a pick-up) or you go with simplicity. Imo, 2D as a non-encouraging bid, 3D as a trf, 4D as diamonds, fills the bill here. It's not science, but it gets you to a small slam in a ten card fit that is cold barring an unlikely ruff at trick 1. (You rise with the ace if a heart is led T1).

[mikeh]

The actual auction was pretty bad, even if we accept that the system permits/requires a 2♥ natural positive response: which many (most in NA) would not. As others have said:

 

1) opener should be intending to show a balanced hand too strong for a 2N opener, but

 

2) when responder bids 2♥, it is criminal not to raise... assuming that 2♥ promises 5+ in length... and I have never heard of a natural suit response to 2♣ that didn't show 5+.

 

My advice: if you don't want to switch to a scheme of 2♦ positive but waiting, and 2♥ immediate negative (using 2N to show a positive heart response, in a simple version of the method.. there are better, but more complex variants), then at least use 2♦ waiting.. bid 2♦ on all negative hands and all positive unsuitable for a suit bid, and require 2 of the top 3 honours in a 5+ suit for a positive response.

 

Now, we see:

 

2♣ 2♦

2N 3♦ transfer

3♥ 4♦ second suit

 

Opener has a good hand, now. At imps, we'd end up in 6♦... at mps we might try 6♥, since 6H making 6 beats 6D making 6 or 7.

 

We might, just possibly, reach 7♦, if responder held both red kings if opener is allowed to keycard over 4♦... but I would play 4N by opener as regressive: probably 4=2=3=4 or 3=2=3=5.

 

I'd bid 4♠ over 4♦: a cue in support of diamonds, and if responder held the right hand, he'd use 4N, as two suit (6 keycards and 2 Queen) keycard.. the responses are 14/30/2 or 5 with no queen, 2 or 5 with 1 queen and 5N is 2 or 5 with both queens. So opposite KJxxx Kxxxx we'd reach 7: I'd show 1 or 4, he'd ask for queens, and I'd show (via step responses) both Queens and no black King: he'd be able to assume that if I held AQ or AQx of ♥ and at least 4 diamonds, we can score a black suit ruff in my hand so long as trump were not 4-0.

[neilkaz]

I am in complete agreement with Ken Berg's comments here.

 

2♥ positive with that ratty suit is not my style with a bare minimum.

 

After 2♦ waiting, it should be trivial to find a red suit small slam, most like in ♦ as the bidding will reveal that you have more of them.

 

In the actual bidding, the jump to 6♦ is absolutely crazy with both a min positive response and lacking stronger ♥ as promised. Please please please SLOW DOWN THE BIDDING WITH GOOD HANDS WHEN GF IS ALLREADY ESTABLISHED AND YOU MAY HAVE A SLAM !!

 

Rather than 6♦, 4♦ should be automatic and, LOL , it is not passable after the earlier positive response. What deserves to happen vs 6♦ is for the opps to cash two quick ♠ tricks.

 

After 6♦ as opener I am bidding 7♦ all the way, expecting S to have ♦ support along with at least the KJxxx in ♥ for his positive and likely another winner or two.

 

.. neilkaz ..

[Free]

2♣: ok

 

2♥: awful imo! You have a poor suit, with half your points in a short suit. I prefer a simple 2♦.

 

3♦: in function of the 2♥ bid, you should expect partner with a ♥K fifth or longer. So 3♦ is quite ok imo, since you can support partner later (hopefully) and partner will have a good picture of the hand to decide whether (grand) slam is possible or not. 2NT would be plain awful (you have a fit and a great hand for trumps), and 3♥ doesn't get this hand across completely (but is probably the best alternative).

 

6♦: basically says "I'm playing all by myself, I'm going to make it hard on my partner and blame him for doing the wrong thing, whether he passes or bids". 4♦ would be a perfect bid: you can stay low, gather some information, find out about 6NT/7NT instead of ♦,... 6♦ is selfish.

 

7♦: basically says "If you make mistakes, I'm willing to take some responsibility for the poor result as well". You still have a minimum opener, partner is probably minimum as well, so I would pass. Stretching requires a much better hand (distributional and/or HCP).

 

Blame: South, 100%

[han]

I agree with 2C, the hand is too good for a 20-21 2NT opening.

 

I don't like 2H.

 

I think that 3D is awful.

 

I think that 4D would be a good bid over 3D. It sets trump and lets you try for slam.