Wackojack Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 [hv=d=e&v=n&s=sa5hq532da632cq102]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Playing Acol club 2 days ago this hand opened 1NT (12-14). All passed. Contract making. Loss 2.33 imp. It looked like a perfectly nomal contract so I looked at the traveller. 8 out of the 12 times the hand was passed out. None of the players on the traveller from the Acol club. I wonder what system they could be playing. I assumed that nobody (not even the most timid lol) would pass this hand. Incidentally lossed 3.33imp on another hand soon after. This hand was passed in 4th position at game all by 4 out of the 12 players: A542, J72, 104, AK74. Different players, same timidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 I'm surprised so many passed with the 12 count. I generally wait for 2 1/2 QT to open a balanced hand, but would have imagined I'd be in a very small minority passing this with this hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Comment 1: If I am playing 2/1 or some other sound opening system, I'd probably open hand 1, but I wouldn't be thrilled about it. I certainly wouldn't feel out of sorts if my partner chose to pass instead. Comment 2: I'd be thrilled to get dealt this hand playng Acol and would (happily) open 1NT for the preemptive effect. The second hand is a clear cut opening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 This is an average 12 count. Playing real-diamond Precision with a 13-15 1NT I would pass this hand in 1st and 2nd seat, but probably open 1♥ in 3rd or 4th, at least under the conditions stated. It does not qualify for rule of 15 but I think it makes sense to play rule of 14 to compensate for the sounder opening style in 1st/2nd seat. Playing other non-exotic methods I would open this hand in 1st/2nd seat but maybe not in 3rd/4th seat. Playing 1NT=12-14 in all seats is not my favorite style, but at love all MP it does work well this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Both seem clear openings - the first would be close at other conditions, whereas the second is totally routine given the spade length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 The original hand is a fine weak NT opening, but, playing a standard system, I would pass it. It is not a good 12 count. The aces are fine, but the queens are not good. The second hand is an absolutely clear opening in 4th seat - 12 HCP and four good spades is not close to passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph23 Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 We'd gladly open 1NT on hand 1 when NV. It's better than a lot of our 1NT openings. Hand 2 has ♠, is not 4333 and has 12 HCP and 3 quick tricks. How can anyone pass ? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 I'd open both. I'd open the first 1♣ if the club Queen was the Jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 I play basic Std American and 2/1 GF. I would open hand 1 in first, 2nd or 3rd position with 12 HCP two bullets and my queens protected. Hand two with 12 HCP and no real flaws is a clear opening for me in any seat and if PD passes this 3 QT hand, he/she can expect the session to end quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingolia Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 I assumed that nobody (not even the most timid lol) would pass this hand.An adjunct question: If your partnership passes with the first hand in 1st / 2nd seat, how light do you need to protect in 3rd / 4th seats? with all 9 counts & most 8 counts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 An adjunct question: If your partnership passes with the first hand in 1st / 2nd seat, how light do you need to protect in 3rd / 4th seats? with all 9 counts & most 8 counts? I don't buy that one. I only need to 'protect' to make sure we bid game if it's on. If partner passes balanced 12 counts, and I have a balanced hand, I need 12 points to have a serious shot at game. If partner passes a balanced 12 count and I pass a balanced 11 count, so what? Sometimes we'll avoid playing in a bad 3NT. Sometimes they'll have a major suit fit and take the auction from us, or push us up one higher than we want to be. On the average, it's a losing proposition...barely. If it makes the rest of the system work, I'm all for it. I don't really have an opinion on opening them vs. passing, but I wouldn't consider passing balanced 12s 1st and 2nd seat and passing balanced 11s 3rd and 4th seat to be a hole in the system either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Can somebody explain to me why a hand which is a 12-14 NT opener when playing a weak NT, might no longer be worth an opening bid when playing a 15-17 NT (so that a 1NT rebid shows 12-14)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Can somebody explain to me why a hand which is a 12-14 NT opener when playing a weak NT, might no longer be worth an opening bid when playing a 15-17 NT (so that a 1NT rebid shows 12-14)? A 1NT opening significantly decreases the chance that the opponents can bid 1♥ or 1♠. A 1♣ opening signficantly increases the chance that the opponents can bid 1♥ or 1♠. (Most people will overcall 1M with many more hands than they would open 1M) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Can somebody explain to me why a hand which is a 12-14 NT opener when playing a weak NT, might no longer be worth an opening bid when playing a 15-17 NT (so that a 1NT rebid shows 12-14)? 1. A 1NT opener is very pre-emptive. Part of the issue with opening a 12 count with one of a minor is that it makes it allows them to bid a 5 or 6 card major even without an opening count. 1NT has a lot less problems with that. 2. With interference, a wide-ranging bid is far more dangerous than a narrow bid.Say you open 1 club, and the next person says 2 spades. Is partner going to take you for a balanced 12 count? Or is he going to take you for more shape/strength, and bid on? Suppose he doubles. Are you going to have a safe rebid? The more you have in the majors, the less of a problem either issue becomes. If you take the hand: QTKQ45432AJ32 Most people would open that 1NT with a 12-15 NT, but would pass with SA. You're inviting trouble opening that with one of a minor, particularly one diamond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 1. A 1NT opener is very pre-emptive. Part of the issue with opening a 12 count with one of a minor is that it makes it allows them to bid a 5 or 6 card major even without an opening count. 1NT has a lot less problems with that. 2. With interference, a wide-ranging bid is far more dangerous than a narrow bid.Say you open 1 club, and the next person says 2 spades. Is partner going to take you for a balanced 12 count? Or is he going to take you for more shape/strength, and bid on? Suppose he doubles. Are you going to have a safe rebid? The more you have in the majors, the less of a problem either issue becomes. If you take the hand: QTKQ45432AJ32 Most people would open that 1NT with a 12-15 NT, but would pass with SA. You're inviting trouble opening that with one of a minor, particularly one diamond. I agree with you about the weak NT. I prefer weak NT systems myself. I disagree with you that most SA players would pass with that hand. In a strong NT field, I would expect 80% plus of the field to open. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BebopKid Posted July 28, 2007 Report Share Posted July 28, 2007 1. It fits the rule of twenty2. It has a four card major Open it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted July 28, 2007 Report Share Posted July 28, 2007 1. A 1NT opener is very pre-emptive. Part of the issue with opening a 12 count with one of a minor is that it makes it allows them to bid a 5 or 6 card major even without an opening count. 1NT has a lot less problems with that. 2. With interference, a wide-ranging bid is far more dangerous than a narrow bid.Say you open 1 club, and the next person says 2 spades. Is partner going to take you for a balanced 12 count? Or is he going to take you for more shape/strength, and bid on? Suppose he doubles. Are you going to have a safe rebid? The more you have in the majors, the less of a problem either issue becomes. If you take the hand: QTKQ45432AJ32 Most people would open that 1NT with a 12-15 NT, but would pass with SA. You're inviting trouble opening that with one of a minor, particularly one diamond. I agree with you about the weak NT. I prefer weak NT systems myself. I disagree with you that most SA players would pass with that hand. In a strong NT field, I would expect 80% plus of the field to open. Peter I play 15-17 NT and would open this hand 1♣ and hope PD does also. .. neilkaz .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_U_Card Posted July 28, 2007 Report Share Posted July 28, 2007 I would only NOT open the first hand in 4th seat....no problem with rebids on either hand etc. wtp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted July 28, 2007 Report Share Posted July 28, 2007 Passing or opening with this is fine, just depends on your partnership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irdoz Posted July 29, 2007 Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 Hrothgar said: A 1NT opening significantly decreases the chance that the opponents can bid 1♥ or 1♠. LOL - so BBO software now allows insufficient bids :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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