microcap Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 Playing a pairs match, both tables missed an easy slam with these cards, one playing 2/1 and one playing Precision. How would you bid ? Any methods or systems are welcome.. [hv=d=s&v=n&n=skqj87hkdkj543c10x&s=sa6hajda96caqj654]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv] The good news is: for once, Rex and I are NOT AT FAULT!! :D :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph23 Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 We'd probably bid: South: 2NT. Frankly...It's too strong for 2NT opening IMHO, with all the Aces and the nice ♣ suit, so I will start with 2♣, planning to rebid 2NT. So say I do open 2♣ with this plan. North: 2NT. This is an upside down transfer into ♠ (we play 2♥ as super weak and artificial). 2NT shows a good suit with an 8+ suit quality (add length plus honors = 5 + 3 = 8). And a good hand, more than 8 HCP. South: 3♣ natural, denying 3 card spade support. North: 3♦ natural, nice 5 card suit. South: 4♦. I can dig that. North: 4♥, keycard asking (kickback). South: 4NT (2nd step, showing either 1 or 4 Keycards) North: 5♣, do you have the Queen of ♦ perchance? South: 5♦. sorry I don't. North: 6♦. South can correct to 6NT if he's feeling frisky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 Precision: 1♣ The usual1♠ GF with spades (4++)-------------------2♣ Natural2♦ Natural-------------------3♦ Natural, 3 card support, extra strength3♠ Natural, 5 cards, extra strength. At which point, it's time to check for aces and kings, and then bid 6NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 I think I would open this a natural 1♣. It has the wrong texture for a strong 2NT opening of whatever range. The bidding could easily go 2NT 3NT and you are down when they knock out an appropriate ace and you have to lose a club trick. Therefore I want to make a more flexible opening. 2♣ intending to rebid clubs might be ok but then you will be too high when partner has nothing. Of course 1♣ and you might be too low when partner has the ♣K and nothing else. Anyway after 1♣ we bid as follows: 1♣ 1♠2NT* 3♦**4NT*** ? 2NT = 16+ with six clubs and fewer than three spades3♦ = naturalish - suit or NT stopper4NT = Quantitative - 19+ ? = its clear to bid slam now. At IMPs I would bid 6♣ at matchpoints I think I would probably try 6NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph23 Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 Anyway after 1♣ we bid as follows: 1♣ 1♠2NT* ....... 2NT = 16+ with six clubs and fewer than three spades Hmmm.... I guess we sure bid different in the States. Your auction surely is interesting, though.... What would you rebid with 18-19 HCP, and 3334 distribution ? Or 2434 distribution? How does 2NT show 6 clubs ??? Why can't opener be 2335 ? And what would he do with 18 HCP and this distribution ? He apparently can't bid 2NT with any of these hands.... Where we play, 2NT rebid just shows a balanced hand too good to open 1NT, not good enough to open 2NT, and not 4 card support for partner's spades. (Are you always raising partner with 3 spades? With a balanced hand even?) I guess that's simplistic but that's the way I learned..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 Anyway after 1♣ we bid as follows: 1♣ 1♠2NT* ....... 2NT = 16+ with six clubs and fewer than three spades Hmmm.... I guess we sure bid different in the States. Your auction surely is interesting, though.... What would you rebid with 18-19 HCP, and 3334 distribution ? Or 2434 distribution? How does 2NT show 6 clubs ??? Why can't opener be 2335 ? And what would he do with 18 HCP and this distribution ? He apparently can't bid 2NT with any of these hands.... Where we play, 2NT rebid just shows a balanced hand too good to open 1NT, not good enough to open 2NT, and not 4 card support for partner's spades. (Are you always raising partner with 3 spades? With a balanced hand even?) I guess that's simplistic but that's the way I learned..... We open 2♦ with 18-bad 20 balanced. Mexican 2♦. Mexico is just south of the border. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 Playing a pairs match, both tables missed an easy slam with these cards, one playing 2/1 and one playing Precision. How would you bid ? Any methods or systems are welcome.. [hv=d=s&v=n&n=skqj87hkdkj543c10x&s=sa6hajda96caqj654]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv] The good news is: for once, Rex and I are NOT AT FAULT!! :D :rolleyes: nothing fancy 2nt=3h3s=4d4nt=6nt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 nothing fancy 2nt=3h3s=4d4nt=6nt Agree. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhall Posted July 25, 2007 Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 In Minotaur (Hall-Munday), the auction would likely go 1♣ - 11+ both minors, 18+ NT, or 14-20 with any 6+ card suit1♠ - 7+ with 4+ ♠, 4 cards only if it holds no 4-card minor3♣ - Single-suited* ♣ game force (8+ tricks, 6+ ♣), usually 18-20 HCP3♦ - ♦ stop or cue (not shortness)3N - ♥ stop4♣ - ♣ fit, RKC4♥ - 1 or 44♠ - ♣Q ask5♣ - ♣Q, no side K6N - I'll gamble on good ♣ or ♦Q *A 2♣ rebid is 6+ ♣, 14-17 or 18-20 with a second suit, forcing 1 rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph23 Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Mexican 2♦. Mexico is just south of the border. Border ? There's a border ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 How about: 1♣(1) - 1♠(2)2♦(3) - 3♦(4)3♥(5) - 3♠(6)4♣(7) - 4♥(8)4NT(9) - 5♣(10)5NT(11) - 6♦(12)6NT(13) - Pass (1) Natural(2) Natural, spades first with 5-5(3) Natural reverse, forcing (too strong for 3♣)(4) Forcing(5) Cue, first or second round control(6) Cue, first or second round control(7) Cue, good clubs (ace probably not enough for this)(8) Cue, first or second round control(9) 1430 keycard; opener knows hearts and spades are covered(10) One or four keycards for diamonds (must be ♦K)(11) Ask for kings; willing to gamble a grand slam opposite the club king.(12) No unshown kings (i.e. no club king)(13) Less risky than 6♦ in case diamonds don't break Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 How about: 1♣(1) - 1♠(2)2♦(3) - 3♦(4)3♥(5) - 3♠(6)4♣(7) - 4♥(8)4NT(9) - 5♣(10)5NT(11) - 6♦(12)6NT(13) - Pass (1) Natural(2) Natural, spades first with 5-5(3) Natural reverse, forcing (too strong for 3♣)(4) Forcing(5) Cue, first or second round control(6) Cue, first or second round control(7) Cue, good clubs (ace probably not enough for this)(8) Cue, first or second round control(9) 1430 keycard; opener knows hearts and spades are covered(10) One or four keycards for diamonds (must be ♦K)(11) Ask for kings; willing to gamble a grand slam opposite the club king.(12) No unshown kings (i.e. no club king)(13) Less risky than 6♦ in case diamonds don't break I think, given the style you are playing there, about the first 10 bids in your auction are pretty good. But 5NT seems wrong, why not ask for the diamond queen? For one thing north might be able to bid a grand off the club king that way (KQJxx Kx KQxxx x) but more importantly, north might bid a grand over the 5NT bid on a hand with like Kxxxx of diamonds and a stiff club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Hi everyone Big Club 1C-1H*-2D*-2H*-2NT-3D-3S-4D-4H*-4S*-4NT*-5NT*-6NT 1C=16+1H*=5Ss or 11-13HCP(or 17-19 or 23-24)2D*=clubs2H*=not three clubs2NT=balanced 'stall'3D=natural3S=two card support(do not raise Ds with 3 because 4-3 fits maybe a problem)4D=fifth diamond4H*=Kickback 4130 RKC4S*=14NT*=asks for D queen5NT*=I do not have the diamond queen, however, I have extra values so please 'pick a slam'6NT=NT scores higher and we may have 12 tricks even with bad breaks Regards, Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbforster Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 In my precision variant we'd figure out shape and the K's and Q's locations (but not J's) by 5♥, at which point opener would have the choice of declaring in clubs, diamonds, or spades, or having partner with known shape declarer NT. 1♣(1)-1♥(2)1♠®-2♣(3)2♦®-2♥(4)2♠®-3♣(5)3♦®-3♥(6)3♠®-4♣(7)4♦®-4N(8)5♣®-5♥(9)6N (10) We play the bidding system were responder bids hearts and clubs, and opener bids spades and diamonds :). But seriously... (1) - 16+ artificial(2) - 4+♠ unbalanced (transfer)® - relay(3) - ♠ and ♦ (transfer)(4) - ♠=>♦(5) - 5♠-5♦(6) - 1♥-2♣(7) - 7 slam points, where AKQ=321 (KKKQ=7) (opener knows we're off 4 points, AQ, KK, KQQ, etc)(8) - ♠ and ♦ honor, no ♣ honor. (missing K♣ and 2 more slam points)(9) - 2nd ♠ honor, no 2nd ♦ honor. (10) - you play it, glp! At this point, opener knows about the KQ♠ (3 points) and exactly 1♦ honor. Together with the lack of club honors and the singleton heart, the only way we can get slam points to add up to 7 is with the K♥ and K♦. From opener's perspective, he knows: KQxxxKKxxxxxx It seems dangerous to try diamonds without the Q. In clubs, we can pitch our losing diamond on the 3rd spade and only go down if clubs play for 2 losers (possible, given we don't know about the T). But with everything double stopped, if we're betting on clubs playing for 1 loser, we might as well play 6NT :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 ROFL I can only assume the other bidders are getting paid per bid :) I only pray someday I can play half as well as you guys bid. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Playing a pairs match, both tables missed an easy slam with these cards, one playing 2/1 and one playing Precision. How would you bid ? Any methods or systems are welcome.. The good news is: for once, Rex and I are NOT AT FAULT!! :) :) My version of Symmetric Relay does ok in 10 rounds of bidding ... 1♣ (1) 1♠ (2)1NT (3) 2♦ (4)2♥ (3) 2♠ (5)2NT (3) 3♣ (6)3♦ (3) 3♥ (7)3♠ (3) 4♣ (8)4♦ (3) 4NT (9)5♣ (3) 5♥ (10)5♠ (3) 6♦ (11)6NT (12) 1. 16+ any 2. 4+ spades unbalanced not four hearts 3. Relay 4. 4+ diamonds and 5+ spades 5. at least 5/5 6. 0 or 1 heart 7. exactly 5=1=5=2 8. three controls - A and K or three Ks 9. A, K or Q of spades, A, K or Q of diamonds, no A, K or Q of clubs (or two top honours in clubs) 10. 2nd top spade honour, no 2nd top diamond honour 11. spade Jack and diamond Jack 12. to play Edited==== I initially wrote no A or K of clubs but in fact we deny all three top honours and do not scan through a doubleton twice. I got it half right I didn't scan through clubs twice. And actually I always had it in my mind that the club queen had been denied I just wrote the wrong thing down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbforster Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Wayne - if you can find out about the J♠, would you want to play 6♠ in case there's a bad club break? Then all you need is 4-2 spades or better, and even with a spade loser you might not have a club loser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Hi, system simliar to standard american 1C (1) - 1S3NT (2) - 4D (3)4H (4) - 4NT(5)5C (5) - 6D (1) If you open 2NT, you are there, either via transfer to spade followed by 4D ... followed by 6NT(2) ugly, but 3C can be passed, and I dont like reverses in non existing suits(3) natural, should be 5-5(4) cue for diamonds, the Ace or King(5) RKCB, 4 key cards With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 South opens 2♣North is not asleep.Bids happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 I won't present a bidding sequence to get to a slam, but I will say that you do not want to get to 6D. That is one slam that can go down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 my version of natural aproach ends in 6♦ 1♣-1♠2NT-3♦ (5-5)4♣-4♥4♠......... EDIT oops misscounted south poits 2NT-3♥ transfer3NT-4♦ 2 spades, nat or pre cuebid4♥-4NT 6 keycard blackwood--- 6♦ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Wayne - if you can find out about the J♠, would you want to play 6♠ in case there's a bad club break? Then all you need is 4-2 spades or better, and even with a spade loser you might not have a club loser. Actually I wasn't sure about relaying for the ♠J but I put it in because I can. I might not at the table. Wouldn't clubs need to be 5-0 for their to be a problem? I think 5-1 or 6-0 spades are more likely than 5-0 clubs even when you discount the 5-1s for the times when you have no club loser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted July 28, 2007 Report Share Posted July 28, 2007 1♣ 15+ 1♠ 5 spades unbal may have no pts 1nt relay (15-17 or GF) (slight overbid) 2♣ show 4♦ may have no pts 2♥ GF so opener show a `2♣` opening (slight overbid) 3♦ 5♠-5♦ no void 3♥ keyc in spades (3♠ as KeyC in ♦ is also reasonnable) 3♠ 1 3nt ♠Q♠ ? 4♠ yes +♦K♦ +♥K or stiff♥ no ♣K♣ so confirm 5152 shapes 4nt ♦Q♦ ? 5♣ no 5nt suggesting another trumps suit 6♣ ♣Qx Jx or Tx♣ denies ♠KQJT♠ pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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