sceptic Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 [hv=d=n&v=n&n=sq75hq9daq42cj852&w=st64hj832dt98c763&e=sa3hat764d73cakq4&s=skj982hk5dkj65ct9]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - Pass 1♥ 1♠ Pass 2♥ Pass 3♦ 3♥ 4♠ Pass Pass Pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 !! find a new partner edit: ignore this, I misread the auction :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceptic Posted July 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 hehe why I did not think he bid badly, it is my 3D I am curious about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph23 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 ♣♦♥♠ 2♥ by North is ok for me. I am thinking both the ♥Q and ♣J will be useless so it's a bit agressive with a balanced hand with only 3♥, but I think it is OK. 3♦ is fine and your King of ♥ is well placed. I don't see a thing wrong with it. 4♠ is aggressive by North (again) with the "wasted" round suit values, but how can he be blamed after hearing 3♦ from South? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badderzboy Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 All about agreements but an unassuming cue bid asks how good the overcall was and the 3♦ bid shows a good overcall now ptr sees a double fit with a near max overcall and feels the temptation so would I. Now the question is 2♠s or 3♦s and given all my kings sit pretty I don't mind 3♦s Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Looks like the usual IMP overbidding to me. I like 2♥ as North. A bit pushy, but it's IMPs. I would not bid 3♦ as South. It's aceless, it's balanced, and it's an 11 count. Looks a queen or a singleton shy of forcing to game to me. I do play that 3♦ here is a GF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph23 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 I do play that 3♦ here is a GF. My p & I would play it as help-suit game try, so I still think 3♦ is fine. I do agree that South doesn't have enough to insist on game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 My p & I would play it as help-suit game try, so I still think 3♦ is fine. I do agree that South doesn't have enough to insist on game. Hmmm...so what's BWS? Is this call a GF or HSGT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceptic Posted July 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 so is 3D GF or shape showing and inv or help suit GT? this is what I want to understand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph23 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 My p & I would play it as help-suit game try, so I still think 3♦ is fine. I do agree that South doesn't have enough to insist on game. Hmmm...so what's BWS? Is this call a GF or HSGT? ♣♦♥♠ The standard doesn't go that far ... it doesn't discuss overcaller's actions after advancer makes a cue bid raise. :) http://www.bridgeworld.com/default.asp?d=b...bwsall.html#VIC If 3♦ is GF, what would 4♦ be in your methods ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 I think 2♥ and 3♦ were both pushy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 If 3♦ is GF, what would 4♦ be in your methods ? Bleah, define the bid, don't define the responses...that seems very BWSish. 4♦ would be Splinter with a self-supporting (original) suit. I don't play the cue bid promises support...it could also be a hand with full opening count with a suit of its own (since a new suit would be NF constructive, you need to cue to do forcing constructive). For that reason, I don't think I've ever had a hand that bid 4♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 3♦ is an overbid.Btw, I would assume 2H promises a fit here no matter what your agreements are, as advancer is a passed hanhd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skjaeran Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 I disagree with those saying 2♥ was pushy. I think that was an obvious bid.IMO 3♦ was an overbid, but not by much. I'd rebid 2♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 3♦ is an overbid.Btw, I would assume 2H promises a fit here no matter what your agreements are, as advancer is a passed hanhd. Good point, missed that, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 2♥ is fine: indeed, no other call makes any sense. Passed hands don't generally hold more than 11 hcp, and the ♥ Q is not always wasted: give partner AJ or A10x or K10x etc. 3♦ was an overbid opposite a passed hand. Aces... where are the Aces I will need for game? So I would have bid 2♠....yes, it is a maximum for 2♠, but when we start upgrading ALL maximums, they are no longer maximums, they are minimums for the stronger bid.. and this is still just a maximum 2♠. BTW, I fully understand that changing the ♥K to the ♥A might cause me to bid 3♦ and get the same terrible result... I try to post the thoughts I would have at the table, not the thoughts that get me to the right result in the forum :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 BTW, I fully understand that changing the ♥K to the ♥A might cause me to bid 3♦ and get the same terrible result... I try to post the thoughts I would have at the table, not the thoughts that get me to the right result in the forum :) Luckily the same shift in time that moves the heart ace to your hand moves the heart King to your LHO, so when he leads his partner's suit you actually make it. So what's your opinion on the real question (IMHO)...3♦ in this auction, GF or HSGT? When you play it, and in Bridge World Standard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zasanya Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 North has already shown 10-11 points with implied ♠ fit.On opponents bidding he should infer that ♥ Q is likely to be wasted.He has 3trumps anot 4 so he should bid 3♠ and not 4 despite the ♦ fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 [hv=d=n&v=n&n=sq75hq9daq42cj852&w=st64hj832dt98c763&e=sa3hat764d73cakq4&s=skj982hk5dkj65ct9]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - Pass 1♥ 1♠ Pass 2♥ Pass 3♦ 3♥ 4♠ Pass Pass Pass 2h by passed hand is 100% limit raise by passed hand.I rebid 2s, decline invite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 I hate 3D opp a passed hand, I'm shocked by how much sympathy it's getting. Maybe people forgot partner was a passed hand. It's just asking for too much to have a game here. Sure it's possible but you need a completely perfect fit and you're going to get to so many hopeless spots bidding like this (like the one reached). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Hi, I think 2H and 3D are fine, but Northshould bid 3S instead of 4S,2H followed by 3S tells his story. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 I hate 3D opp a passed hand, I'm shocked by how much sympathy it's getting. Maybe people forgot partner was a passed hand. It's just asking for too much to have a game here. <snip> Yes, as I wrote my comment, I did realize,that North was a passed hand.But I think 3D is fine, if partner was nota passed hand. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 I agree with mike and justin (no surprise there) that 2H is normal, and 3D is an overbid. I don't like 3D even if partner is not a passed hand. 3D is natural (natural-ish, anyway) and invites partner to bid game holding a hand that would pass 2S. If partner was going to pass 2S, what game can be making? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 If 2♥ promises a fit you clearly have to rebid 2♠ to show a non-constructive hand opposite a passed hand. Even if p were not a passed hand you should bid 2♠ unless you have an very frivolous overcall style so that this hand contains significant extras, If 2♥ is a generic strong bid 3♦ is more reasonable but still 2♠ is better, assuming a middle-of-the-road overcall style. But a passed hand cannot make a generic force. North's bidding is fine, I don't think heś pushing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 3♦ is really awful imo! Partner is a passed hand, we do not have the strength, and South doesn't have a good distribution, to try for game. Bid 2♠, if p has some distribution he might try again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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