What do you bid?

[ArcLight]

#1

IMs , all Red

pass - pass - you open 1 ♠ - pass

1NT (semi forcing) - pass - what do you bid holding :

 

♠A J 8 x x

♥ J

♦A K Q x

♣K x x

 

2♦?

3♦?

Other?

Why?

 

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#2

Favorable, IMPS

 

P - P - P - 1♥

1♠ - 2♥ - 2♠ -?

 

What do you bid holding:

♠ 6

♥A 9 8 7 5

♦Q 5 4

♣A K Q 6

[jtfanclub]

Using the most basic agreements, I'd bid 3♦ on board 1 and 3♣ on board 2.

 

Bid where you live.

[helene_t]

I think I'd just bid 2♦ on the first one. 3♦ is reasonable of course. On the second one, I think a general invite (2N) is better than 3♣ since 3♣ will couse p to devaluate his lack of club honours but we already know he doesn't have any. It would be nice to have a short-suit trial in the enemy suit. Otherwise a help-suit trial of 3♦ if it shows something like this suit.

 

Btw, do you really play 1N forcing by a passed hand? That's not standard.

[Gerben42]

First hand I bid 2♦. 3♦ would be forcing to game, and opposite many possible hands I'm not willing to be forced to play 3NT.

 

Second hands I make some invite. Assuming we didn't agree much, I bid 3♦. Note that 3♣ does not help much, partner will never accept since he never has top honors there.

[jtfanclub]

I think I'd just bid 2♦ on the first one. 3♦ is reasonable of course.

If we're using very basic agreements, I really don't like 2♦. Partner may be bidding conservatively afraid I opened 3rd hand with a 9 count, and the 2♦ call won't dissuade him of that. It is an 18 count, though I've certainly seen better ones.

 

Maybe 3♦ is a better call on hand 2 without agreements. It certainly does make partner's decision easier.

[Gerben42]

Partner may be bidding conservatively afraid I opened 3rd hand with a 9 count

 

Weak 9-pointers must PASS every response, even a supposedly forcing 1NT. 2♦ shows full values.

[ralph23]

♣♦♥♠

 

I don't know how 1NT can be forcing. Some people play semi-forcing and I think we do, although I really never understood exactly what that means. "Oh I don't want you to pass, but hey you can" ... Sounds sort of like semi-pregnant.

 

On hand 1, some would stretch and bid 3♦ but I think that's just a bit too much of a stretch. In the olden days we said "OK opener's JS shows 20" and then it got to be "OK then a good 19 is fine" and now we're down to 18. But I'm not a fanatic on this one. But what do I expect partner to do over 3♦? My sense is 70% of the time he'll just shrug and bid 3NT.

 

If you feel like being adverturous, then go for 2NT! Partner "may" have some ♥ and the odds are pretty good for taking 4 (on a good day maybe 5) ♦ tricks. It's a gambling bid and a bit of a lie with the stiff ♥ but as Jerry Helms says, bridge is not a perfect game.

 

I don't expect many people will buy this one .... and partner may ask me later "How in the world ...?" ... but I still think it's a reasonable shot.

 

On hand 2, we play 3 categories: 2NT is the weakest and says "I just don't want to sell out, so bid 3 and then shut up." It's a variant of good/bad 2NT and seems to work for us ok.... 3 of the major is next in line and says use your judgment. 3♦ is the strongest (short of just bidding game) and says "I think we maybe/even probably should be in game so see if you can find an excuse to bid it." Bypassing 3♣ in favor of 3♦ shows I don't need any help in the ♣ suit so partner will even figure out a little bit what I have.

 

That leaves double, which can't be natural/penalty here, so I don't know what that would mean. We play maximal overcall double but the conditions aren't right for that, i.e. I have 2 minor suits available for game try (i.e. 2♠ isn't a "maximal" bid). I wouldn't consider it as partner may get confused and pass....

[SoTired]

#1: 2N=17-19. I'll risk the hearts to show my strength. If we rebid 3D we may force to a poor game. If we rebid 2D and partner rebids 2H, we will be stuck because a secondary 2N shows about 16.

 

#2: 4H. Normally, this hand is worth a 3C invite, but I will upgrade it since the opps are bidding and raising my singleton, meaning partner's honors are likely in diam and hearts.

[jtfanclub]

Partner may be bidding conservatively afraid I opened 3rd hand with a 9 count

 

Weak 9-pointers must PASS every response, even a supposedly forcing 1NT. 2♦ shows full values.

 

Not the way I play it. 1NT is really, honest-to-God forcing, because it includes hands with 10-11 hcp and 3 card support, or 8-9 hcp with a singleton and 3 card support. If you play Drury, that's no longer a factor.

 

Even if you play 1NT as semi-forcing, most people would bid 2♦ with a 5-5 9 count.

 

The original poster said 1NT was forcing. It's since been edited to make it semi-forcing. I agree that 2♦ makes more sense if 1NT is semiforcing.

[pbleighton]

2D seems obvious on 1, though 3D is understandable.

 

I'd bid 3C (long suit try) on 2.

 

Peter

[jdonn]

I would bid 3♦ on the first one (many of my friends would disagree with me?) I am not worried partner responded light since he wouldn't do so opposite a 3rd seat opener, there is really no point when both opponents have passed already. So I think it's clear we are more likely to miss game if we bid 2♦ and partner has to pass than it is that we get too high if we bid 3♦ now.

 

I don't hate 2NT since it shows the strength and is a little deceptive to the opponents, but I don't love it either. If partner has diamond length and a stiff spade, 3♦ could lead us to slam.

 

Second one I think 3♦ is an obvious bid. 3♣ does not help partner evaluate whether to bid game at all.

[mikeh]

2♦ on the first one. This is the type of hand on which B/I (and many more advanced players) consistently overbid..

 

Partner will very rarely pass 2♦... picture the hands on which partner passes and you will see that many (most) of them do not offer a good play for game. Partner will/should strain to keep this auction alive and will never pass with Hx of spades, for example. Nor will/should partner pass with 4+ diamonds and 9+ hcp.

 

Will I never miss game when it makes? No.. I will miss some games.. but not many.

 

The flip side is whether I always reach a making game via 3♦. Clearly, there are many, many hands opposite which game has no play... yet 3♦ is an absolute game force. While a missed vulnerable game costs more than overbidding a partscore hand, I think that I will miss relatively few good games by bidding 2♦ compared to the number of hopeless or bad games I reach via 3♦.

 

The middle ground, of 2N, will often and probably usually work, but usually is not always, and the costs could be horrendous. Not only will partner be disappointed in our heart stopper/length, but there are other ways to lose in addition to a failing 2 or 3N.

 

We may belong in slam. We may be able to get there over 2♦. I know that will sound odd to many B/I players, but we have more chance of reaching 6♦ (the most likely slam if there is one) after 2♦ than after 2N.

 

Picture x Axxx Jxxxx Axx... this hand loves 2♦.. and we are going to become aggressive if partner shows diamonds.. whereas this hand has a simple wtp raise of 2N to 3N.

 

On a less optimistic note, we may belong in 5♦ rather than 2N or 3N: xx xxx Jxxxx AQx. The point is that we can never get from notrump into diamonds (unless partner has a huge number of them) but we can sometimes get from diamonds into notrump when it is best (consider partner bidding 2♥.. now we bid 2N, having given a very accurate picture of a 17-18 5=1=4=3).

 

BTW, this is very close... Make it the same shape with AJxxx x AKQx KJx and I think I'd probably jumpshift, even tho the difference is subtle and, on some constructions, the posted hand works better. Certainly AJxxx x AKQx KQx is crystal clear to jumpshift.

 

 

On the second, obviously methods (good/bad or bad/good 2N, etc) count. Absent methods, the choice appears to be between 3♣ and 3♦, and this is a style issue.

 

3♣ is not going to get partner excited unless he holds an extra trump and shortness, but he is allowed to bid 3♦ on the way to 3♥ if he doesn't help clubs but has an acceptance of a gametry in diamonds. So long as you have that understanding, then I see nothing wrong with 3♣. And it may in fact help in the unlikely event that the opps are not through yet. If both sides have a double fit, and our side fit is in clubs, it may help partner (with a mittful of clubs) to make the right decision later... I would not rate this as high on my priority list, but it is a minor factor.

[TimG]

I like 2♦ on the first hand. It doesn't matter to me whether 1NT is forcing or semi-forcing. Partner may occasionally pass 2♦ when we have a game, but I bet that happens far less frequently than 3♦ finds us in a hopeless game.

 

On hand 2, I like 3♣ preparing for the opponents to compete further (uncovering a side fit or helping with the defense) or 4♥ (damn the interference, just let'em guess).

[Guest Jlall]

2D, can't add much to what mike said except that we may belong in clubs as well. After 1S-1N-2D-2S we can bid 3C and describe a hand with a near JS and short hearts, but after 1S-1N-3D-3S we get endplayed. If we bid 3N and pard has club and not heart values that could be terrible, if we don't bid 3N and partner has heart but not club values that could be terrible. Three suited hands are best not JSed if avoidable. The hand is also simply not good enough for a JS.

 

The downside is we might miss a game opposite the dreaded 1435 with some values hand type, and some hands with 1 spade and 4 diamonds and like 7 points that can't raise 2D.

[pclayton]

2D on the 1st. This isnt a game force IMO.

 

On the 2nd, I really want to just bid game. 5 losers facing a hand that likely doesnt have spade wastage should make game, but its easy to construct hands like: xxx KQx Jxx xxx and even xxx Kxx Kxx xxxx where pard has his bid and game has no play. So 3D for me.

[P_Marlowe]

#1 3D, an over bid. Why? Red, IMP's

#2 3C, game try. Why? The raise has a higher variance.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe