penalty redoubles

[jim420]

I've been seeing more and more of this bid recently. How do you usually use this bid in general? In other words, how "sure" does the contract have to be as evident from the auction do you redouble when an opponent double you?

 

Will post a few example hand later...

 

p.s. In the MBC table with pick-up pairs, the penalty redouble is seldom a peaceful bid. Usually someone will be leaving the table before the next board (out of guilt, obviously, or anger at partner) when this bid is issued.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

if you are sure, the contract does not go

down more than one, and the contract will

be making half of the time, you can redouble.

 

With kind regrards

Marlowe

[Stephen Tu]

The people redoubling frequently are usually bad players monkeying around. Good players redouble a penalty double very rarely. If you are making the contract, the redouble is usually superfluous, at MP you turn a top into a top, at IMPs you gain more but it's rare that it's right to do it.

 

Times to redouble for penalty:

- opps double you in 1nt and your side has most of the deck. Have to redouble especially if you might have game. Usually they run though and you nail them.

- opps double stayman/transfer for the lead, but opener has especially good holding in the suit. Can get a game bonus out of nothing sometimes.

- opps make a lead directing double of a game/slam contract, but you are well prepared for the lead. Redouble to prevent partner from thinking about running, and/or punish opps for making too speculative double.

- opps double your game but you were thinking about slam. Redouble to protect your possible slam bonus. This is defense against the "stripe-tailed ape double". Be wary though if opps could have surprise for you that is reason why they doubled. I don't think I ever remember an opp pulling the ape double on me, I only read about it in books.

 

If you are not playing seriously then of course you can redouble every time you think decent chance to make it, to try and fill out your score book (one partner & I are trying to achieve all possible bridge scores in our lifetime, I only try the speculative redouble in club games).

[DWM]

This is not how I thought redouble was used. However, the only books I have read regarding redouble was the menagarie series and the Hog sytle redoubles

[ralph23]

♣♦♥♠

 

There are a couple of conventional redoubles you should be aware of, & you may want to use:

 

Support XX. You open e.g. 1♣, your LHO passes and partner responds 1♠. Your RHO doubles for the red suits; your redouble shows 3-card ♠ support. Bidding 2♠, on the other hand, promises 4♠. This can be very useful to partner.

 

Rosenkrantz double and redouble. LHO opens 1♣ and partner overcalls 1♠. RHO bids a new suit at the 2 level. Double by you is a ♠ raise with a high honor (AK or Q), and 2♠ by you is raise without such honor. By same token, if your RHO made a negative double (showing ♥ in this example), then XX is a ♠ raise with a top honor similarly.

 

Moscow escapes. We use this a lot since we play weak NT. Partner opens 1NT and your RHO doubles. (1) XX by you requires partner to bid 2♣ if your LHO passes, and (2) pass by you requires partner to XX if your LHO passes. (1) is used to park in 2 of a suit, and (2) is the start of a search for a suit fit runout, and responder will bid 2 of his lowest 4-card suit in response to the XX. Interestingly, it only goes this far about 5% of the time since opponents usually bid and let us off the hook. :)

 

As for business redoubles at a high level, I would forget using them unless you have two voids or some such. It's just not worth the payoff.

[helene_t]

Agree with Stephen. I'll add that in some cases, a redbl of a penalty double is not for business. For example, if opps double 3NT after you have found a minor suit fit, a redbl expresses discomfort with the lead suggested by the double and asks p to run if he can't stop the suit either.

[Stephen Tu]

Note that the redouble showing doubt is rather dangerous without prior discussion. Can someone explain to me why redouble showing doubt is better than say pass showing doubt?

[helene_t]

Can someone explain to me why redouble showing doubt is better than say pass showing doubt?

In 4th seat, the only way to consult partner is to redbl. Pass would end the auction.

 

As for direct seat: Suppose we reach 3N (or some other contract) in an auction that did not reveal an alternative strain, i.e. we have nowhere to run. Now opps double. The normal thing to do is just to pass automatically. The split could be terrible and then 3Nx is a lesser evil than 3Nxx, or any 4-level contract in a non-fit.

 

If you can clearly distinguish situations with an alternative strain from situations without, this may not e a problem. But consider, for example (we play short club, Walsh):

 

1♣-(p)-1♦-(p)

1N-(p)-3N-(p)

p-(x)-?

 

3N can be based on a balanced hand, say 3343, or on long diamonds. Redbl shown the long diamonds and doubt about clubs which must be the menace since with some other suit, doubler would have overcalled 1♣.

 

If pass shows doubt, responder would have a problem with a 3343 and no club honour: pass would encourage opener to run to a non-fit in 4♦, while redbl would make a possibly inevitable downtrick more expensive.

[Stephen Tu]

See, I don't understand why that auction would occur. In your example, the doubler is on lead. Why the hell would anyone ever double on that auction? If they are going down because you hold AKQJT clubs you just pass and lead it, don't give them chance to run, doubling is idiotic.

 

The situation I am thinking of is when declarer's RHO doubles 3nt for the lead, why should declarer redouble to show doubt? Mainly I don't quite understand this since sometimes you have some doubt but still want to take your chances in 3nt, but don't want to turn your possible -200/500 into -400/1000 for no great reason. If your doubt forces the contract to play redoubled unless partner has "the nuts", you end up running a lot of time when 3nt was making anyway.

 

I know I have as an opponent made many speculative lead directing doubles without 5 tricks in hand, since at IMPs or BAM particularly, the double costs little compared to the potential gains. Especially if I can get the opponents to run when they were making.

[jdonn]

Steven I don't agree at all that good players redouble so rarely. It's important to capitalize on the mistakes of your opponents, and at imps you may improve your score greatly. Also a lot of players make very speculative doubles so the chances are there. Just look at your last paragraph in your last post, how can it not be right to redouble someone with that attitude toward doubling from time to time?

 

Agree per matchpoints, usually the gain is nonexistant so there isn't much point.

 

As for redoubling to show doubt, it is a pretty good idea on certain auctions if your agreements are secure. Pass can't show doubt since the only conceivable use for it is a hand that isn't dying for partner to run, but prefers to take its chances here. In other words, not "doubt", but not a sure make either, something in between. If you pass to show doubt then you are essentially catering to hands on the extreme of a lot of doubt or no doubt, but screwing all the hands not at either extreme. On auctions where 3NT is for the lead of dummy's suit you do have a point since then it must make the most sense for redouble to just say "I have the suit they will lead locked up".

[pclayton]

The people redoubling frequently are usually bad players monkeying around.  Good players redouble a penalty double very rarely.  If you are making the contract, the redouble is usually superfluous, at MP you turn a top into a top, at IMPs you gain more but it's rare that it's right to do it.

 

Times to redouble for penalty:

- opps double you in 1nt and your side has most of the deck.  Have to redouble especially if you might have game.  Usually they run though and you nail them.

- opps double stayman/transfer for the lead, but opener has especially good holding in the suit.  Can get a game bonus out of nothing sometimes.

- opps make a lead directing double of a game/slam contract, but you are well prepared for the lead.  Redouble to prevent partner from thinking about running, and/or punish opps for making too speculative double.

- opps double your game but you were thinking about slam.  Redouble to protect your possible slam bonus.  This is defense against the "stripe-tailed ape double".  Be wary though if opps could have surprise for you that is reason why they doubled.  I don't think I ever remember an opp pulling the ape double on me, I only read about it in books.

 

If you are not playing seriously then of course you can redouble every time you think decent chance to make it, to try and fill out your score book (one partner & I are trying to achieve all possible bridge scores in our lifetime, I only try the speculative redouble in club games).

I don't agree with all of this

 

I would agree that redoubling at MPs has no effect on a top, but can turn an average minus into a zero.

 

Good players will redouble, especially against weaker players. Redoubled contracts give decent odds, but when the possibility of overtricks comes in, they can be very profitable. Redoubled slams can very juicy.

 

I completely disagree with the concept of redoubling to get partner to avoid pulling a cold contract. In practice this never happens and if he's pulling, he's pulling.

 

Totally agree with the idea that redoubling a game where you were considering a slam try. Its very possible the opponent mistake your hitch as weakness, instead of strength. Feel free to teach him a lesson about 'tells'.

 

One time I wouldn't redouble is if I was concerned the opponents had a profitable sac. Turning the cube can change the odds they need to run.

 

I've had one stripe-tail ape before and it worked.

[Rossoneri]

What about redoubling at MPs to protect your slam bonus? Is that reasonable?

[helene_t]

In your example, the doubler is on lead. Why the hell would anyone ever double on that auction? If they are going down because you hold AKQJT clubs you just pass and lead it, don't give them chance to run, doubling is idiotic.

You're right, silly example from me. Not sure if I could come up with a better example or if you're simply right. Have to think about it.

[skjaeran]

What about redoubling at MPs to protect your slam bonus? Is that reasonable?

If you're talking about redoubling 5M in case you make slam, that might be a good idea on occasion.

 

I've got a good story from 1981 (I was just 16 then). I had just discovered that 5Mx+1 scored less than bidding the slam. Of course this had to be tried out. On the last hand on the last evening of the club championship our opps (one of the better pairs) were on their way to 6♥. I had nothing, and when RHO replied 5♥ to BW I doubled and all passed. My partner scored a trick early on, np. Then another, ouch! In the end he scored another trick, and we set the contract! When we opened the traveller to enter our score, all the other tables had bid and made slam. The rest of the players were finished and were standing around our table at this moment. They all burst out laughing. Poor declarer had been taken in, and I scored the hoped for top, but in quite another fashion than expected. B)

[Quantumcat]

Problem with doing that though, what if they were going to stop in 5M anyway?