Suggest a sequence

[paulg]

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=saqtxxhdkj9xxckqx&s=sxxhaqjtxxdcaj9xx]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

This hand tested many at the Peebles Congress yesterday, including me. You are playing with a new partner and playing a fairly natural system.

 

It is debatable whether you want to find the club slam, but how do you think we should bid it?

 

Paul

[Guest Jlall]

1S-2H-3D-3H-3N seems like an obvious start. Now I would play 4C over this as a cue for hearts and would probably just bid 4H over 3N.

 

So 1S-2H-3D-3H-3N-4H...not a thing of beauty.

[paulg]

1S-2H-3D-3H-3N seems like an obvious start. Now I would play 4C over this as a cue for hearts and would probably just bid 4H over 3N.

 

So 1S-2H-3D-3H-3N-4H...not a thing of beauty.

Two of the top UK players, playing together for the first time, had exactly this sequence.

[foo]

North,N/S,IMP,

AQTxx, , KJ9xx, KQx

xx, AQJTxx, , AJ9xx

This hand tested many at the Peebles Congress yesterday, including me. You are playing with a new partner and playing a fairly natural system.

 

It is debatable whether you want to find the club slam, but how do you think we should bid it?

The only way I see to get to 6C is to "take a view" and give up on 3N:

 

1S-2H;3D-4C;etc

 

OTOH, 6C looks like a less than 50% contract, so I'm not sure why we are straining to find sequences to get Us there.

[hotShot]

1♦-1♥

1♠-2♣ 4SF

2♠-3♣ 5+♣

 

4NT going for the ♣ slam (or 4♣ if this is RKCB)

...

6♣

[pbleighton]

1S-2H-3D-3H-3N seems like an obvious start.

 

And for me, an obvious end :)

 

Both hands are nice before the bidding starts, but neither are great after pd bids their void.

 

The only way I see to get to 6C is to "take a view" and give up on 3N

 

Agree. I think 6C on this is Forum bidding.

 

Peter

[kenrexford]

1S-2H-3D-3H-3N seems like an obvious start. Now I would play 4C over this as a cue for hearts and would probably just bid 4H over 3N.

 

So 1S-2H-3D-3H-3N-4H...not a thing of beauty.

Awful hand!

 

Normally, this looks like my auction.

 

If I'm aggressive, I'll cuebid 4♣ in support of my own hearts and have partner throw up, bidding 4♥ himself.

[Trinidad]

With North as dealer, I can't see any way to reach a club contract, in a natural system. When North is the first to describe his distribution clubs will end up as the fourth suit.

 

However, when South is the first to describe his distribution, clubs are the third suit, which makes all the difference. This can happen if South would have been the dealer or if NS are playing a strong club system. So, if there were any pairs that reached the slam, they were probably playing a variation of a strong club system.

 

Rik

[Fluffy]

1♠-2♥

3♦-4♠

pass

[bhall]

1♠-2♥

3♦-3♥

3N-5♣

?

 

is possible, but might be interpreted as a splinter in support of ♦. I agree that the practical choices are P and 4♥.

[skjaeran]

With my regular partner the bidding MIGHT go:

1♠ - 2♥

2♠ - 3♣

4♣ - 4♦

4♠ - 5♣

6♣

 

2♥ is 2-way, either 3-7 hcp with 3c support OR natural 2/1.

A pessimistic opener might rebid 2♠, but most probably would invite game vs the weak hand with 3♦ instead.

IF opener rebid 2♠, 3♣ is GF with 5+5+.

[han]

I don't think I would ever play in clubs unless south opens 1H out of turn (and it is accepted).

[Echognome]

It's very tough to play in fourth suit. It seems that strong club + relay would get you there. However, looking at the hands, I would not be disappointed at all to be in 4♥.

[keylime]

1S - 2H

2S* (denies viable extras) - 3C* (shape showing with some values)

3D - 3H

3NT - 4C

 

...at this point you're on your own trying to realistically get to 6C. After the raise to 5C you simply just have to take a shot and go to get there, and bidding direct to six clubs doesn't help you if hearts and/or spades are adverse.

 

Tough hand in natural methods.

[joshs]

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=saqtxxhdkj9xxckqx&s=sxxhaqjtxxdcaj9xx]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

This hand tested many at the Peebles Congress yesterday, including me. You are playing with a new partner and playing a fairly natural system.

 

It is debatable whether you want to find the club slam, but how do you think we should bid it?

 

Paul

Playing 2/1, I would sadly never mention clubs.

1S-2H-3D(extras. yes maybe my void in partners suit should slow me down, but I do have a 5-5 15 count)-3H-3N-4H

 

Without the heart T I might pass 3N and take my chances, but its generally better to be in a suit on a misfit, if there is a suit thats good enough.

 

Note: I generally play that in a GFing auction after partner has bid NT you can bid the 4'th suit naturally, but this only applies at a lower level. At the 4 level, the best use for a bid of the 4'th suit is a good bid of a different suit. Which suit is it a good bid for?

 

Well look first at if you can set all the suits as trumps below game. If there is only 1 suit you can't set below game, thats the suit this 4'th suit bid shows. If there is more than 1 such suit (or if you can agree all the suits below game) than this is a good raise of the most recently bid of those suits.

 

E.G.

1S-2D-2H-3D-3S-4C=Slam try in Spades (spades bid more recently than hearts, can bid 4D naturally below game so thats eliminated)

 

1S-2H-3D-4C=Slam try in Diamonds (Can bid all suits below game, so next look at what is most recently bid. Note: I consider this sequence the most contraversal, since you can legitamtely set all the suits below game, so the question is if there is a better use for this).

 

1S-2H-2S-3H-4m=Cue bid for hearts. yes these are only the 3'rd suits but in general, we don't introduce suits at the 4 level when we could have introduced them earlier and didn't.

 

1S-2H-3C-3H-4D=Slam Try in Hearts (As 3S and 4C are forcing, and 4H is not forcing, this must be for hearts).

 

Is this basically the rules that everyone here plays? If not what are the differences?

 

 

Note: There are other auctions where only 2 suits are in play, where you can't set either suit below game. For instance if you play 1N-3S, as both majors GFing, then most play 4C=Good 4H bid, 4D=Good 4S, 4H=bad 4H bid, and 4S=bad 4S bid.

 

There are other auctions, such as 2N-3C-3M where you can't possible want to play in the other major unless partner can bid it (if you had only 5 of that one but not 4 of the other you would have transfered not bid stayman) but you might have a 5+ card minor you were intered in playing in. Hence 4 of either minor is natural, and the idle bid of the other major is the only strong raise. Once again note, there is no cue-bidding before you agree a suit...

 

Principle: When there is only one idle bid available, you should use it to show "extras" and interest in going higher, and not use it as a cue bid or a specific help suit. (For instance in the auction, 1S-(2D)-2S-(3D), 3H is the only game try available, so it shouldn't promise hearts. there is a similar principle at the 4 level when trying for slam and at the 6 level when trying for a grand. When there is two or more suits to choose from, then they become semi-natural (below 3N) or cue-bids when trying for slam.

[Fluffy]

It is actually very hard to play in the 4th suit, specially when it is bid at the 4 level first time :)

 

 

But as Dwayne suggested, you could make it 3rd suit. Not me today, tomorrow I can feel less optimistic.

[paulg]

When we were discussing the hand, it was the best use of 4♣ in the auction

 

1♠ 2♥

3♦ ?

 

It should probably be a diamond cue bid or natural with slam invitation values. If the latter then I think you should get to 5♣ on this hand, but get to the club slam when North holds the ♦A instead of the ♦KJ.

[benlessard]

i dont see any problems ?

 

1♠   2♥

3♦   3♥

3nt

 

now 4♥ looks superior and 4h is a very good contract.

 

but 4♠ to play is reasonnable (unless this show a void or a cuebid + solid hearts)