An issue of language?

[Rossoneri]

I was directing my own tourney, everything going smoothly until board 6, when I get called to a table for slow play by an EW pair.

 

So I go over and take a look, ok, EW were taking quite a while but the auction was getting high so never mind. Now East bids 5NT and all pass. South queries E on the 5NT bid. E at first doesn't answer. S seemed to have queried again and now E answers something like "13♣s what do you think?" Now NS complains to me about E not properly explaining the bid. I stepped in and told the table to explain their bids properly, if no agreement state so. E then corrects his explanation to "No agreement".

 

So after the board was over and everyone moved for the next round, I typed, "A final warning: Pls explain your bids properly. Offenders may find themselves kicked out of the tournament."

 

Now W on the previous table comes and msg me about this:

 

rossoneri->Tournament: A final warning: Pls explain your bids properly. Offenders may find themselves kicked out of the tournament.

W: dont kick them but may send them out

W: using nasty word

W: pdr y r td be soft

->W: I beg your pardon? In any case, your partner the one was not explaining his bids properly.

W: kicking is an insulting word

->W: It is not.

W: it is my dear if know english

->W: English is my first language.

->W: Maybe in your local context it is, but I am not aware of it being insulting in this context.

W: that is the saddest part

->W: if you wish to complain, feel free to send an email to abuse@bridgebase.com

W: why shd i complain when i can pay back

W (Lobby): and tx over

->W: I beg your pardon?!

W (Lobby): i said tourney is over

W (Lobby): think calmly

->W: "Why shd i complain when i can pay back"

->W: that is what you said

W (Lobby): 1st not to offend any one

->W: do you know that statement of yours can be interpreted as a threat?

W (Lobby): i mark u a friend and will remind this word daily if u permit

 

Wow.

[BebopKid]

West sounds like a jerk (language cleaned up) to me.

 

Thanks for taking the time to be a director. Most people appreciate what you do.

[rona_]

I think it's a language issue. After all, not that many languages use the verb to kick in so many imaginative ways as the English one does. "I get a kick out of ....", "kick your car into gear", "to kick the habit". "a drink with a kick".."got kicked out of school", "to kick in (medicine)" :) to kick out etc etc. In my own language, the only thing you kick out or about is a football, and we use "throw out" instead of kick out...so maybe west took what the TD said literally. Labeling him a jerk is not a good idea Bepokid. To be told you will be "kicked out" of a tournament, would be very offensive in some cultures. Personally I would not be offended but I must say it does sound rather harsh..Why not just say " You will be removed"...It solves the language issues.

 

Rona B)

[jillybean]

West sounds crazy and not the sort you want to engage in conversation, just black list him. :)

 

Thanks for TD’ing. At best its a thankless job and made worse by crazies and abusive players.

[Trumpace]

If West finds it rude to use the work "kick" just apologize and get on with it. I don't see why you need to try and convince W that it is not rude.

 

You do agree, in some cultures it might be considered rude? Does not matter if you invented the English language.

 

West's behaviour near the end was, well... but I do have some sympathy for West (after all, he felt insulted by what the TD had said)

[blackshoe]

I agree with "just apologize and get on with it". I don't agree with the last bit - "I feel insulted" is not justification for being insulting right back.

 

Or look at it another way: being rude to a TD is likely to get you (a) an adverse ruling or (:huh: blacklisted, at the least. Feel insulted all you want, but don't be stupid.

[Rossoneri]

If you look closely I conceded that it might be in his context but I did not meant it to be insulting in this particular context.

 

If W had talked to me in a different tone, I might even apologise, but the further the conversation the developed, the possibility of me doing so became more remote.

[jtfanclub]

Now W on the previous table comes and msg me about this:

 

rossoneri->Tournament: A final warning: Pls explain your bids properly. Offenders may find themselves kicked out of the tournament.

W: dont kick them but may send them out

W: using nasty word

W: pdr y r td be soft

->W: I beg your pardon? In any case, your partner the one was not explaining his bids properly.

W: kicking is an insulting word

-> W: I did not intend for it to be insulting. I apologize if you were insulted by it.

W: No problem.

 

End of discussion.

 

Why escalate it? Sure, W was looking for a fight, but the main job of the TD is to prevent fights from happening.

[Trumpace]

I agree with "just apologize and get on with it". I don't agree with the last bit - "I feel insulted" is not justification for being insulting right back.

 

Or look at it another way: being rude to a TD is likely to get you (a) an adverse ruling or (B) blacklisted, at the least. Feel insulted all you want, but don't be stupid.

Once you feel insulted, I think it is quite hard to not take it personally ;) and try and do something about it. The person in question is only human.

 

If you think you are insulted, and yet you behave impeccably, then kudos to you.

 

About an adverse ruling or being blacklisted, it is not the end of the world if you get a bad result (or are never allowed back) in some random (no offense to the original poster) tournament. I don't think West's behaviour was stupid. Just bad.

[jillybean]

Why escalate it? Sure, W was looking for a fight, but the main job of the TD is to prevent fights from happening.

Why should any TD tolerate abuse or threats?

 

Each TD will have their own limit to what is acceptable or not. Obviously this player crossed the line here.

[jtfanclub]

Why should any TD tolerate abuse or threats?

At the point where I cut the conversation and finished it, where is the abuse or threats?

 

As a TD, one should head these things off before they get to extremes, not let them spiral out of control and then whine about the players.

[barmar]

I think it would be pretty hard for a TD to predict that trying to reason with a player is going to result in the kind of abuse he got. And it's not clear to me that "I'm sorry if you were insulted" would have placated this hothead -- he doesn't sound like the "No problem" type of person.

[jtfanclub]

I think it would be pretty hard for a TD to predict that trying to reason with a player is going to result in the kind of abuse he got. And it's not clear to me that "I'm sorry if you were insulted" would have placated this hothead -- he doesn't sound like the "No problem" type of person.

The Club Director's Handbook has a whole paragraph about walking away from the table. :lol:

 

So, I'm directing Addicts last Friday. Four rounds. At the beginning of round 3, I adjust a board from the previous round. One of the people who played it disagrees with me, but is playing the next board. At the end of the round 3, he pages me back about it. Unfortunately, while he's looking at the board, the next round starts.

 

The player in question is still discussing it with me while bidding the first board on round 4 starts. One of the opponents complains that it's too slow. I explain to the opponent that he's discussing an adjustment with me we should be done in a moment. Opponent gets hot about it.

 

I apologized.

 

A minute later, the player sees that the adjustment is correct (communication had been cut), thanks me, they finish in plenty of time, everybody's happy.

 

Could I have tried to explained it further to the opponent? Sure. Would he have become upset and caused abuse? I doubt it. Was I going to take that chance? Heck no.

 

And that's my point.

 

I don't know if the situation in the other case could have been defused as easily, but it's always worth the shot.